Coaching Carousel

[bluemountain]

I inquired before the game whether Chryst was UW’s Bruce Weber and I still think the analogy holds:
1. Took over a program that was humming and won big early
2. A safe, loyal hire who was unlikely to ever leave after a hot shot coach bolted for seemingly greener pastures
3. A “system guy” who seems unwilling to change/adapt
4. As a purely X’s and O’s guy, probably unmatched. But lacks the charisma/charm/leadership etc you’d like to see in a figurehead/CEO of a big time program.
5. After big initial splash, plateaued and was stuck in “does well enough to keep his job” zone.

I actually give UW credit for making this move now. On paper, it’s absurd to fire a coach that’s won 70% of his games. But the vast majority of that winning occurred some time ago and the program has been trending in the wrong direction for a few years. Would be analogous to us firing Weber after the 2009-10 season, which we probably should have done.

Question is Leonard the guy to turn it around. From what I’ve seen he seems to check more boxes in the Weber/Chryst column than the Alvarez/Bielema/BU etc column. And in this era of transfer portal/NIL, I’m not sure the Weber/Chryst guys can thrive like they have in the past. We will see. But I’m thrilled with where both of our programs are headed.

Not even close....in 6 full seasons he won 3 division titles and came in second 3 times. More than likely they end up 8-4 this year, 7-5 at worst. He has kept the wheels turning pretty well in Madison, much better than Weber did here.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I respectfully disagree. I'm one of the people who was originally thrilled when Lovie was hired but he turned out to be a fraud and a disaster. Bad coaching, boring personality, lack of effort, outrageous nepotism and cronyism in his hiring decisions, stubborn and predictable, and a lack of understanding of how to plan and execute a cohesive recruiting plan suitable for the current landscape in college football. I'll concede your point that he was not likely to cause a scandal, but that's a pretty low floor for a head coach.

We're currently starting 17/22 players Lovie brought into the program and it was 18 before Ezekiel Holmes got hurt. Which doesn't seem that unusual for a 2nd year coach, but it actually is in the new portal reality.

Which isn't to offer some revisionist defense of Lovie, even as a recruiter. It's just to say, all roads led us where we needed to be.

 

[Epsilon]

And the interim tag doesn’t completely handcuff them to Leonhard if for some reason it doesn’t work out.

How does that affect recruiting though? Smells a bit like the #notideal situation we had with Cubit, even if Leonhard is a step up from that.

 

[Epsilon]

We're currently starting 17/22 players Lovie brought into the program and it was 18 before Ezekiel Holmes got hurt. Which doesn't seem that unusual for a 2nd year coach, but it actually is in the new portal reality.

Which isn't to offer some revisionist defense of Lovie, even as a recruiter. It's just to say, all roads led us where we needed to be.

I see it as more of a testament to the current staff than anything, elevating players to maximize their potential. And after seeing our O-line improvement and ability to start playing bully-ball in the red zone, that includes Tank Wright.

 

[americanoutlaw11]

Not even close....in 6 full seasons he won 3 division titles and came in second 3 times. More than likely they end up 8-4 this year, 7-5 at worst. He has kept the wheels turning pretty well in Madison, much better than Weber did here.

edit: delete. Screw Wisconsin, that’s why.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement.

I think Smith largely did what he was hired to do: turn a roaring dumpster fire of a program into merely a bad football team.

I think that if there had been no COVID, Illinois had played its weak 2020 non conference schedule, and hadn’t been down half its offense for the Purdue game, Smith might have eked into a 2nd consecutive bowl game and gotten an extension instead of fired.

I think it’s to Whitman’s credit that he jumped on the opportunity to improve the program, move on from Smith, and bring in Bielema.

Still, I don’t think we’re looking at a candidate of Bielema’s quality if Whitman had let Cubit flounder for another season and then made his first coaching hire.

Another thing I believe gets overlooked a lot is that not only was the program a hot mess, but Josh was a brand new AD with no experience at the D1 level. I think the list of credible coaches that would take over a dumpster fire of a program with a non-D1 proven AD had to be pretty short — and might have tested the definition of credible.

 

[bluemountain]

We're currently starting 17/22 players Lovie brought into the program and it was 18 before Ezekiel Holmes got hurt. Which doesn't seem that unusual for a 2nd year coach, but it actually is in the new portal reality.

Which isn't to offer some revisionist defense of Lovie, even as a recruiter. It's just to say, all roads led us where we needed to be.

Contrary to what RZ used to think, it ain't all about the Jimmies and Joes. Lovie had enough talent here to be at least moderately successful; he just didn't have the staff, organization, discipline, game planning ability, developmental ability, etc to make it work

 

[altgeld88]

Another thing I believe gets overlooked a lot is that not only was the program a hot mess, but Josh was a brand new AD with no experience at the D1 level. I think the list of credible coaches that would take over a dumpster fire of a program with a non-D1 proven AD had to be pretty short — and might have tested the definition of credible.

+ who are you gonna hire at the beginning of March, let alone at the beginning of March as a brand-new AD? JW probably did as well as could have been hoped for in that sitch. IIRC retaining Cubit seemed extremely unwise at the time.

 

[JFGsCoffeeMug]

I flippin' love our staff so much. And I'm thankful to not be worrying about taking another spin on the carousel any time soon. I'm trusting our AD to keep a good thing going, and BB to fill eventual openings with quality candidates. Gone are the days when we merely longed for competency across the board; we're seemingly entering an era where excellence at every position is demanded and expected.

Couldn't be more excited!

 

[Dan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1576994600753008654

 

[redwingillini11]

He was as was Freeman. Glad it didn't go that way(Nothing against LL either). It was BB from the start though.

I appreciate getting this perspective. Despite how successful Bielema has been, its hard not to notice and ask "what if?" while watching LL's miraculous turnaround at Kansas. But maybe what he's doing wouldn't have worked here. Maybe if it did he would have been plucked by another school like he may get plucked from Kansas.

With Bielema, we got a guy who has been all around the block and knows how to win in the B1G. He seems to have matured greatly, and using us as a stepping stone does not appear to be his priority. The unknown is the unknown. But getting our choice for the job and the early returns being as good as they are, you can't argue with that. Now maybe we will be the bastion of stability in the middle of the B1G!

 

[Ramrod2010]

That follow up tweet by Werner is somewhat reassuring that we might get another year from Walters.

Still, if this defense continues to ball out like it has I'd imagine the offers would eventually become too good to pass up.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

It is considerably lower than 16 Million. CHryst and Wisky agreed to a new buyout

I heard that also

why in the world would he do that ?

he either needs an attorney or needs a new attorney

 

[Battle89]

+ who are you gonna hire at the beginning of March, let alone at the beginning of March as a brand-new AD? JW probably did as well as could have been hoped for in that sitch. IIRC retaining Cubit seemed extremely unwise at the time.

Such a (respectful) dichotomy in the above. Thanks to all for the lively discussion.

As previous posts of mine have stated, I am no fan of Lovie and never was. His tenure and results on the field were exactly what I expected. The nepotism and other stuff was worse than expected. He was only here for a (big) paycheck, IMO (I know others, including Robert, feel differently). But that should not take away from Whitman's success here.

Nobody wanted to coach here at that time. Nobody. We were getting a preemptive 'no' from multiple potential candidates. Lovie's hire brought the name recognition, respectability, and hoped-for improvements in Chicago-area recruiting. Real out-of-the-box thinking by Josh.

So I was simultaneously ticked that Lovie was the choice, and happy that we had an AD that could make such a thing happen.

 

[ptgrd23]

We fired Ron Zook for going 6-6 too many years and got Tim Beckman and Lovie Smith going 3-9 most years. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

Picking the right HC is probably the hardest part of an AD's job.

I think Whitman has made some poor early hires but is learning on the job.

Brad hire is a home run. Brett is trending very well. I am very optimistic about the new women's basketball coach.

 

[New Creation]

I heard that also

why in the world would he do that ?

he either needs an attorney or needs a new attorney

Came out of the ADs mouth during the press conference. He made it sound like 8 mil is “their” agreement

 

[pruman91]

Heyyyyyyyyyyy bucky badgerdom , Scott Frost is looking for a job ........................just sayin...........................

 

[B-ILL]

Leonhard makes 1.5 mil a year as DC. That’s his salary for the rest of the year no matter what title he has. Gritty is right Wisconsin is scared to death of losing Leonhard and this gives him the chance to earn the HC job.(which he should given the easy schedule left). Personally I don’t think Leipold is the guy for a school like Wisconsin….academic hurdles would hold him back.

Wow, I thought Illinois was bad. Wisconsin makes their coaches pass academic admissions too?! Smh. I guess Beckman isn't a candidate then either...

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I heard that also

why in the world would he do that ?

he either needs an attorney or needs a new attorney

Unless they had some possible justification to fire him for cause and used that as a threat, the only other explanation I can think of is: they convinced him they were willing to wait until the end of the season but would definitely fire him, at which point his buyout would go down, the number they arrived at was somewhere between what the buyout is now and what it would be then, and Chryst was kinda ready to be done with this job anyway.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

Came out of the ADs mouth during the press conference. He made it sound like 8 mil is “their” agreement

it all becomes public at some point in the near future

he almost certainly had to have an agent and attorney involved in this.
hard to imagine why he would accept a lower number than the one contractually negotiated just 12 months ago or so, unless:

-there was firing for cause threatened (doubt it)
-they negotiated some deal where he gets a lifetime position/pension/healthcare within the University or something like that

it just doesnt make much sense to me they could work that all out on Sunday morning/afternoon

 

[ktal]

Such a (respectful) dichotomy in the above. Thanks to all for the lively discussion.

As previous posts of mine have stated, I am no fan of Lovie and never was. His tenure and results on the field were exactly what I expected. The nepotism and other stuff was worse than expected. He was only here for a (big) paycheck, IMO (I know others, including Robert, feel differently). But that should not take away from Whitman's success here.

Nobody wanted to coach here at that time. Nobody. We were getting a preemptive 'no' from multiple potential candidates. Lovie's hire brought the name recognition, respectability, and hoped-for improvements in Chicago-area recruiting. Real out-of-the-box thinking by Josh.

So I was simultaneously ticked that Lovie was the choice, and happy that we had an AD that could make such a thing happen.

I was thrilled at Lovie being hired, and unhappy about the BB hire, so I'm not expecting to be picked up as an AD anytime soon. But as other posters have said, Josh salvaged a death spiral with the Lovie hire, and ultimately he left the program better than he found it. The wins didn't improve, but the program improved, and it gave Josh time to think ahead.

The two best moves Josh has made as AD, in my opinion, were hiring Lovie when he did, and firing Lovie when he did. If Freeman, LL and BB were Josh's short list, then we were going to be in good hands. But BB is like winning the lottery, because he appears to be doing what I thought Lovie was going to: prove that his way of running a football program is a recipe for winning, and stability. BB takes the whole FamILLy thing seriously, because he daoesn't want his daughters to move six more times before they reach high school. BB learned from Alvarez and Belichick what the real coaching opportunity is; to settle down somewhere and build something lasting. He wants a staff willing to grow roots, locally, work with people they enjoy, and do their passion year after year. Like a real job.

BB is going to be the Illini's Alvarez. And DC Walters sees that, and might want another year of stability before rushing off to whatever 'not ideal' situation he'll be offered in the meantime. Low turnover among assistants should indicate that what happens on the field and in recruiting, is sustainable. I like it.

 

[altgeld88]

Such a (respectful) dichotomy in the above. Thanks to all for the lively discussion.

As previous posts of mine have stated, I am no fan of Lovie and never was. His tenure and results on the field were exactly what I expected. The nepotism and other stuff was worse than expected. He was only here for a (big) paycheck, IMO (I know others, including Robert, feel differently). But that should not take away from Whitman's success here.

Nobody wanted to coach here at that time. Nobody. We were getting a preemptive 'no' from multiple potential candidates. Lovie's hire brought the name recognition, respectability, and hoped-for improvements in Chicago-area recruiting. Real out-of-the-box thinking by Josh.

So I was simultaneously ticked that Lovie was the choice, and happy that we had an AD that could make such a thing happen.

Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Unless they had some possible justification to fire him for cause and used that as a threat, the only other explanation I can think of is: they convinced him they were willing to wait until the end of the season but would definitely fire him, at which point his buyout would go down, the number they arrived at was somewhere between what the buyout is now and what it would be then, and Chryst was kinda ready to be done with this job anyway.

I think the last clause in you post had a lot to do with it. Wasn’t going to be fun the rest of the season with the booing, speculation and constant questions. Plus. though he coached elsewhere, he’s a Wisconsin guy. Probably wanted to do what is best for the program, staff and players and not hold the program hostage or be “forced” to be a lame duck coach. In situations like his and when treated with respect, I don’t think it is all that uncommon to negotiate a more school friendly buyout

 

[derrick6]

glad its on the other sideline for a change

It was spectacular to witness in person

 

[GForce]

I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement.

I think Smith largely did what he was hired to do: turn a roaring dumpster fire of a program into merely a bad football team.

I think that if there had been no COVID, Illinois had played its weak 2020 non conference schedule, and hadn’t been down half its offense for the Purdue game, Smith might have eked into a 2nd consecutive bowl game and gotten an extension instead of fired.

I think it’s to Whitman’s credit that he jumped on the opportunity to improve the program, move on from Smith, and bring in Bielema.

Still, I don’t think we’re looking at a candidate of Bielema’s quality if Whitman had let Cubit flounder for another season and then made his first coaching hire.

The best thing Lovie did is establish a fully staffed, professional scouting department.