Northwestern 73, Illinois 60 Postgame

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#426      
From watching that video about the spread, it seems to me the players are not interchangeable enough to execute it at the level we would need to. Brad said players 1 through 4 are exactly the same (or something like that). It does look like MM, RJ, and Coleman should be that, but then the other spot is either an undersized or slower guard depending if you go with Epps or Skyy. (Or Harris but his shooting isn’t at the level as the others)

In the same vein, switching on defense has hurt us bc our guys are not as interchangeable as people thought they would be. After the first exhibition game people were saying we “finally” had a group of interchangeable pieces that can allow underwood to do what he really wants to do. It looks like that may not be the case.

But we do have some players with great skill sets. We need to adjust and put them in positions where they can succeed.

I’ve said it before, but I still think our best weapon is MM shooting it. I’d run designed plays to get him open looks.

I’d also have Coleman on the bench more and on a very short leash when he’s in there. A long three off the dribble or a careless pass and I’m taking him out. He’s got to be better than that.
 
#427      

Tacomallini

Washington State
In all the frustrations the biggest bright spot has been Dain-we have a really really good center on our hands in the future. Needs to improve fts obv, but he's going to be great here
A coworker friend played college basketball and this was the first IL game she saw this year. Summary - “I see why Brad is ripping his hair out but at least your center is smooooooth” lol
 
#428      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
Send them all to pruman's for a retreat to get their minds right
Think About It GIF by Identity
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#429      
it takes one times being yelled at like that to not make the same mistake again!!

If only that was true.
quite frankly it's flat out wrong. Psychology would say it is the worst way to lead. I often find myself shocked at coaches and QBs when a WR screws up or drops a ball, creates an INT, etc. They almost never appear to be pissed. I'm sure they are, but they rarely rip off their helmets, get in the WRs face, scream and yell. And that holds true for most people in sports. There are not a lot of blowups, even with boneheaded plays.

Now look at ALL basketball coaches, NBA and NCAA, you can probably count on your hands the number of coaches who blow up like Underwood. It is not a good thing, period. That said, if you have your players respect, and your players are mentally strong, they can ignore the fury and just take the message. If you feel your coach has your back and this is just his style, you can still thrive.

Someone mentioned Ayo got most of Underwood's anger in practice. I'm sure there were also moments where Underwood told Ayo directly, I drive you hardest because you are the best. You can play in the NBA and I'm going to do everything I can to help you get there. You have to make sure your players know you want what is best for them and want to help them reach their potential, otherwise they are going to hate you.

All that said, if you had your choice of 2 clones, identical in every coaching ability only one was a screamer and the other was calm, you would choose the calm one 100% of the time.
 
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#432      

USAFILLINI

Florida
You just figured that out......

sign language fair weather GIF by Sign with Robert
Ha. You are fair weather if you are upset we got blown out by both Missouri and Northwestern???? No one is giving up loving the Illini, but I dont know who is ok with the product that is being put on the floor. Some of us have high hopes for the amount of talent we have, and its extremely disappointing to see where we are at. I still have hope we can salvage this season, but its fading quickly. You can love Illinois basketball and at the same time find it completely unacceptable for the product this staff is putting on the floor.

Players need to pull it together, but they aren't getting paid Millions. This coaching staff needs to figure out what they can do, with what they have, because whatever they are doing isn't working.
 
#433      
quite frankly it's flat out wrong. Psychology would say it is the worst way to lead. I often find myself shocked at coaches and QBs when a WR screws up or drops a ball, creates an INT, etc. They almost never appear to be pissed. I'm sure they are, but they rarely rip off their helmets, get in the WRs face, scream and yell. And that holds true for most people in sports. There are not a lot of blowups, even with boneheaded plays.

Now look at ALL basketball coaches, NBA and NCAA, you can probably count on your hands the number of coaches who blow up like Underwood. It is not a good thing, period. That said, if you have your players respect, and your players are mentally strong, they can ignore the fury and just take the message. If you feel your coach has your back and this is just his style, you can still thrive.

Someone mentioned Ayo got most of Underwood's anger in practice. I'm sure there were also moments where Underwood told Ayo directly, I drive you hardest because you are the best. You can play in the NBA and I'm going to do everything I can to help you get there. You have to make sure your players know you want what is best for them and want to help them reach their potential, otherwise they are going to hate you.

All that said, if you had your choice of 2 clones, identical in every coaching ability only one was a screamer and the other was calm, you would choose the calm one 100% of the time.
It seems that Dravyn would disagree.
 
#434      
It seems that Dravyn would disagree.
Exactly. Some players embrace this and want to be challenged. @BashCtIllini I think your statement had some solid points, but the last sentence felt a bit 1-Dimensional/generalized. You referenced Ayo - He often remarked how much it fueled him and how he wouldn't want to be coached any other way.
 
#435      

Bigtex

DFW
A couple of thoughts -
Epps is the only player who can regularly beat his man off of the dribble and attack - similar problem to last years team but that team had Kofi and Plummer good 3 pt shooter
Shannon can beat man off of the dribble but only left side. And his decision making is suspect
Shannon is a below average 3 point shooter
Because Illini guys don't effectively use the dribble to beat their man, look at how far out the offense regularly starts.
At the start of the year I thought Mayer was the problem - then when he started playing better didn't think so. His last couple of games he has put up good stats but is far from a team player, back to thinking he is part of the problem.
Harris has good energy but hurts the offense - same could be said of Rodgers
Hawkins needs to be in the paint not the 3 point line. Poor decision maker and seems like he is late in processing/deciding.
Dain has been a nice surprise
Clark has been a disappointment - Same for RJ - both slightly injured!!!!
Overall BBIQ seems to be very low.
Overall effort seems to be very low
 
#436      
It seems that Dravyn would disagree.
And Draven is young and inexperienced and on his second, perhaps third school . Regardless we need more than one player to sign up for this and then to excel under this.

I'm certainly hopeful we'll improve this year and see more years like the last three in our near future.
 
#437      
Ha. You are fair weather if you are upset we got blown out by both Missouri and Northwestern???? No one is giving up loving the Illini, but I dont know who is ok with the product that is being put on the floor. Some of us have high hopes for the amount of talent we have, and its extremely disappointing to see where we are at. I still have hope we can salvage this season, but its fading quickly. You can love Illinois basketball and at the same time find it completely unacceptable for the product this staff is putting on the floor.

Players need to pull it together, but they aren't getting paid Millions. This coaching staff needs to figure out what they can do, with what they have, because whatever they are doing isn't working.
Meme Reaction GIF by Robert E Blackmon
 
#438      
quite frankly it's flat out wrong. Psychology would say it is the worst way to lead. I often find myself shocked at coaches and QBs when a WR screws up or drops a ball, creates an INT, etc. They almost never appear to be pissed. I'm sure they are, but they rarely rip off their helmets, get in the WRs face, scream and yell. And that holds true for most people in sports. There are not a lot of blowups, even with boneheaded plays.

Now look at ALL basketball coaches, NBA and NCAA, you can probably count on your hands the number of coaches who blow up like Underwood. It is not a good thing, period. That said, if you have your players respect, and your players are mentally strong, they can ignore the fury and just take the message. If you feel your coach has your back and this is just his style, you can still thrive.

Someone mentioned Ayo got most of Underwood's anger in practice. I'm sure there were also moments where Underwood told Ayo directly, I drive you hardest because you are the best. You can play in the NBA and I'm going to do everything I can to help you get there. You have to make sure your players know you want what is best for them and want to help them reach their potential, otherwise they are going to hate you.

All that said, if you had your choice of 2 clones, identical in every coaching ability only one was a screamer and the other was calm, you would choose the calm one 100% of the time.
Dropped balls happen. Missed shots happen. You can't control the physical parts of a game. If you blow up about that, you're a fool.
When Underwood loses his mind is when they make stupid decisions that fly in the face of what they've worked on in practice. Or they show a lack of effort.
Those things can be controlled, and I'm sure it's infuriating to watch these guys make those same (controllable) mistakes over and over.
 
#439      
We may have brought this type of reaction to this season on ourselves with to high of expectations. A lot of pre-season talk of final four and national title without most any of us having any true knowledge of what’s going on at practice or behind the scenes. Maybe we should tone down our orange shades and have more realistic expectations in the future to minimize these embarrassing forum meltdowns. It’s worked great for our football and WBB forums.
We may have brought this type of reaction to this season on ourselves with to high of expectations.

Anyone who though we were national championship contenders with three or four freshman playing key roles.

range kool aid.jpg
 
#440      
quite frankly it's flat out wrong. Psychology would say it is the worst way to lead. I often find myself shocked at coaches and QBs when a WR screws up or drops a ball, creates an INT, etc. They almost never appear to be pissed. I'm sure they are, but they rarely rip off their helmets, get in the WRs face, scream and yell. And that holds true for most people in sports. There are not a lot of blowups, even with boneheaded plays.

Now look at ALL basketball coaches, NBA and NCAA, you can probably count on your hands the number of coaches who blow up like Underwood. It is not a good thing, period. That said, if you have your players respect, and your players are mentally strong, they can ignore the fury and just take the message. If you feel your coach has your back and this is just his style, you can still thrive.

Someone mentioned Ayo got most of Underwood's anger in practice. I'm sure there were also moments where Underwood told Ayo directly, I drive you hardest because you are the best. You can play in the NBA and I'm going to do everything I can to help you get there. You have to make sure your players know you want what is best for them and want to help them reach their potential, otherwise they are going to hate you.

All that said, if you had your choice of 2 clones, identical in every coaching ability only one was a screamer and the other was calm, you would choose the calm one 100% of the time.
I tend to disagree with you. Most of the best coaches in the world are known to get into players backsides. Underwood would get into his players in the past and they would respond and you would see him smiling on the sideline. This team has been different.

A majority of the best players in the world were/are known to get into their teammates for perceived lack of something. Jordan did it, Brady does it, Kobe did it and I'm sure there are numerous other examples.

What a screamer has to be willing to do is congratulate his players just as loud to be successful. If he is only being loud about the negative then it will be tuned out. Based off his past, I'm willing to bet Underwood is just as loud with his praise of the players or at least the players perceive it that way.

Some players can't handle being coached that way and some can. We will see how this develops but right now it doesn't seem like we have a group that is responding well to this type of coaching, but to say it doesn't work is just wrong.

Calm coaches creeped me out in my life btw, so I don't know that I would choose the calm coach over the coach that showed his emotion.
 
#441      
Brad and his staff has done an outstanding job recruiting talent. He has often stated " ________ is perfect for my system since he is long, athletic, and has a high bball IQ" He now has players like Hawkins, Melendez, Mayer, etc on the roster.
My question:
Is the system flawed or was there never a system at all?
 
#442      
Context and proximity do matter, the problem with the two situations you described is that he's also going nuclear an inch away from the player's faces and a second later the assistant coaches are talking to the players normally so it sure doesn't look like it was necessary to scream like a banshee to be heard
If you look at my post, the third hyphen down kinda covers that. I never said yelling across the arena to be heard was the ONLY reason he yells.

I brought up those situations because I felt like comparing a coach yelling at his basketball team (in front of 15K) to a random person yelling at Wal-Mart/church
is a false equivalency and an unfair comparison…which it is.

I agree that some might not respond to the onslaught as well as others…and it might cause them to shut down. Well, okay…maybe this isn’t the program for you then. Just sayin…They had to know what they were getting into when they came here.

Is it possible that some/a lot of those players that are directly involved in the
situation don’t read the yelling as an embarrassing personal attack the way you/some folks do?

I’m pretty sure it’s not meant as an embarrassing, indictment of them as people. Is it possible that these players understand that better than us? They ARE directly in the situation…and we’re not.

He does, after all say there guys are excellent people and the average dad would be happy to have them date their daughters. So apparently if he yells and says a bunch of negative stuff, at the very least, I’m thinking it’s not the sum total of his feelings toward them.

Anyways, I typed a novel again…if you don’t agree…you don’t agree.
 
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#443      

Joel Goodson

ties will be resolved
Dropped balls happen. Missed shots happen. You can't control the physical parts of a game. If you blow up about that, you're a fool.
When Underwood loses his mind is when they make stupid decisions that fly in the face of what they've worked on in practice. Or they show a lack of effort.
Those things can be controlled, and I'm sure it's infuriating to watch these guys make those same (controllable) mistakes over and over.

This. I'd pin it. Meanwhile, I'm steering clear of game threads ('til this got moved, lol)
 
#444      
Dropped balls happen. Missed shots happen. You can't control the physical parts of a game. If you blow up about that, you're a fool.
When Underwood loses his mind is when they make stupid decisions that fly in the face of what they've worked on in practice. Or they show a lack of effort.
Those things can be controlled, and I'm sure it's infuriating to watch these guys make those same (controllable) mistakes over and over.
I used to think Rick Pitino was a calm, cool, mild mannered coach from what I observed in the games. Come to find out he was well known for screaming, cussing and going nuclear on players regularly in practice. Just kept it under wraps during games. I think we might be surprised of how many coaches have a lot tougher love during their practices.
 
#445      
these kids just don't look happy at all, and maybe Rick Pitino did lose his mind in practice, screaming etc, but he didn't do in front of 15,000 fans. This team showed signs of what they are capable of, but something has changed and they're down, it's all over the team's faces
 
#446      
Dropped balls happen. Missed shots happen. You can't control the physical parts of a game. If you blow up about that, you're a fool.
When Underwood loses his mind is when they make stupid decisions that fly in the face of what they've worked on in practice. Or they show a lack of effort.
Those things can be controlled, and I'm sure it's infuriating to watch these guys make those same (controllable) mistakes over and over.
Having some time to process things since the Northwestern game, here are my thoughts...
1) Brad is a good coach. He has a style and he gets angry and yells. Others have already stated the players already knew this coming into the season. He's also been willing to make mid-season adjustments in the past, and I think he'll make those adjustments now. I think he tried something things he thought could work and they aren't so he'll adjust.
2) How quickly we forget we lost almost our entire team from a year ago. And we're super young. It takes time to get chemistry down not only for the players but the coaching staff. The UCLA and Texas wins as well as almost getting Virginia just magnify our recent struggles. We were all thinking National Title and now everyone is toeing the cliff. Relax and let the season play out. Some adjustments, some gut checks, and getting Goode back might lead us to a Sweet 16 or better.
3) I can go both ways with the yelling. Some players respond to that. I did as a player. Some don't. But we're talking about a D1 power conference and you're kidding yourself if you don't think other coaches (and a lot of them) don't yell like that - the nicest sounding ones on TV are screaming in practice I guarantee it. And back to point 1, all of these players knew Underwood can explode coming into the season.
4) We're clearing lacking first and foremost a leader - maybe the most important point here. I really am not upset with Shannon. I think he's playing hard. Someone commented on how he's more of a Robin than Batman and I think that's accurate. He's a little more quiet. But I'm not happy seeing Mayer dance on the sideline and not be engaged and agree with the assessment that the ball stops with him every time he touches it and he get lax on D. Those are the things that frustrate me as a fan. We have a lot of freshmen that play - tough to be a leader, three transfers, and a handful of guys with limited experience. See next point.
5) Maybe leadership is on the way. I think Luke Goode could turn this whole thing around.
6) We aren't tough enough yet. Other teams out hustle us, dive more, get more physical, box out, etc. This with leadership are the two glaring things that are leading to the losses. Yes, our offense is bad, but you can hide bad offense with leadership and hustle/toughness. Not that I'm OK with bad offense, but the offense can be fixed/change. You must have leadership and toughness/hustle.
7) I'm OK with us shooting 3s but only when they are wiiiiiiiiiiiiiide open right at the arc, later in the shot clock, or if someone penetrates the lane and kicks out. That's the only time we should be shooting them now. No more long launches, quick launches or around the perimeter launches.
8) We NEED to move off the ball. It's been a bit better the last two games. But I despise everyone standing around the arc. Simple back cuts, back screens with the ball moving, and ball screen and rolls can lead to lay-ins with the talent we have.
9) If I were the coach, I'm not ready to rag on Underwood b/c he's completely turned our program around and I'm so thankful for that. But on Saturday, I'd start the 5 guys playing the hardest and it would be Epps, Harris, Shannon, Rogers, and Dain. Send the message to the team that the guys who work hard will start and play. I really mean this. We'll find out who's in and who's out. And if they are out we don't want them anyway. The future is so bright with Epps, Harris, Rogers, Goode, possibly RJ, Dain, Hansberry coming in, Johnson coming in, maybe Perin. Don't waste time with Prima donna guys who only care about themselves.
10) I think it is very possible this season is salvageable. Luke Goode will help/must help. Our younger guys are getting a lot of tick (Rogers should be getting more right now the way certain players are playing). Dain has been an extremely pleasant surprise, not just statistically, but boy was he running the floor on both offense and defense against Northwestern. I was extremely impressed. We NEED a player leader, we NEED to get tougher, and we need to make a few adjustments to our offense and defense. Remember, this team hasn't been together long at all and it's very young. Focus on the positive things that won us games against UCLA and Texas and almost got us a win against Virginia. Start starting and playing the guys playing the hardest and tweak the offense and defense. And I guess cross our fingers that Luke is our leader b/c leadership tends to be more a natural thing, it can't be forced, and Luke is the only guy that I've seen demonstrate that of the current players we have on the roster (he did it last year as a freshman). Luke is the biggest part of this equation. This team is really good. A good leader will bring out the toughness/hustle. A good leader will communicate with the coach as far as what is working and what isn't schematically. Don't jump off the deep end just yet. But also, let's not throw this staff under the bus unless they have major screw ups for multiple years b/c I'm not sure any of us would've thought the program would be expecting Final Fours this quickly and beating the likes of 8. UCLA 2. Texas and almost getting 5. Virginia to start off a season. Go Illini!!! The talent is there. It's about putting the pieces together. Either way the future is very very bright!
 
#447      

the national

the Front Range
these kids just don't look happy at all, and maybe Rick Pitino did lose his mind in practice, screaming etc, but he didn't do in front of 15,000 fans. This team showed signs of what they are capable of, but something has changed and they're down, it's all over the team's faces
What’s got them down is they aren’t making shots, and losing confidence a result. Each of them care and start pressing, rushing shots, missing assignments and (some) play hero ball. In addition, We are also lacking a point guard and others (ahem…Coleman) are trying to be the facilitator instead of focusing on their own game. As a result guys are out of position, out of their roles and it looks ugly.

I actually think coach’s demeanor has little to do with it. But as fans, we see him fuming and he becomes an easy target. Sometimes it isn’t as simple as blaming the guy who’s yelling.
 
#448      
Some fans are becoming upset or are unhappy with coach Underwoods screaming and rants. I am okay with that because it shows me me is not happy with what he is seeing and addressing it immediately with purpose. We have had coaches in the past who didn't seem to be bothered by what was going on during the game and sat there and just watched like a zombie. People need to remember I have never seen a coach that praises and talks up his players to anyone who will listen as much as Brad. In fact many on here lable it as hyperbole. Brad goes to both ends of the spectrum and that is why most players respond well to him.
 
#449      
Well sure, anybody who coaches long enough is gonna have some teams that they struggle to motivate or get that initial
buy in. Different team, different motivational challenges. Year to year…class to class that’s the gig. That’s the reality of a classroom teacher or some random JUCO coach out there somewhere. They can’t exactly pick their students/players and a lot of ‘em would be better off working at Home Depot financially speaking…and I’m not talking smack against the BUs of the world who made the BIGTIME…good for them they earned it!! AND let’s be honest… that was Brad for a long darn time. He more than paid his dues…another reason I like him…

The fact remains…
As a teacher/coach you are expected to motivate your students/players. Most of the time if you can’t…you simply can’t teach them. (it’s more that way now than ever b4) Don’t get me wrong…I was a competent to average teacher/coach…nothing amazing. So it’s just one guys opinion.

But I knew that if I didn’t have their respect, couldn’t relate to them, and couldn’t be kinda motivational…I was DEFINITELY in trouble getting them to buy-in…thus they weren’t going to even be teachable. Even the most outstanding coaches/teachers are gonna have SOME teams that are just tougher or maybe even nearly impossible to motivate/get buy-in…it happens. And right or wrong, a teacher/coach’s job performance is assessed by such things.

But you’re right…they absolutely deserve a share of the blame. You’re not wrong.
Not only that, but they should be consequenced in some way IMO.
Just gonna say that you couldn't pay me enough to teach, though I have unending respect for folks who choose that path. It's just not easy.

I do worry about what happens even if we do pull out of this nosedive. At this point of the season you should be teaching kids some pretty nuanced stuff in your offensive and defensive sets, but you can't do that until you have the baseline concepts down (and your kids are willing to run them). There are no adjustments that can be made given where we're at in implementing the systems this year, and as the amount of film on this year's team grows it's going to be increasingly difficult to avoid having other teams scout what works for you and take it away. It's a subtle thing, but I think it's going to hurt us.
 
#450      
I think people need to realize, we only have 2 guys that played on the team last year, 3 when Goode gets back. So what that means, is many of these guys don't know the system yet. It's certainly not natural to them. Of those returning players the oldest is a Jr. He's also never really been the man anywhere he's played, so he's not experienced leading.

Then when you factor in, you usually look to your best player (Shannon, who is new to the program) or PG (Skyy, new to the program) as your leader that makes it even more a challenge. Our next choice would be the guy who's been around the program the longest, Coleman. He's leading the team in turnovers and one of our worst shooters percentage wise. Is that a guy the rest of the team will follow just because of age? So who does the team listen to? Who gets the team back on track? Anyone?

I think that is our problem. When things go wrong, who knows what to do and what to say to fix it? Who demands the respect of the rest of the team to get them to act? Who is leading by example to show everyone how to play?

I think we are seeing just how important leadership is to a team. This team has more than enough talent to beat anyone in the nation, we've seen it. But they have no coach on the floor and it is killing us.
I mean, part of the problem is that we do have a couple of guys who think they're coaches, but their idea of stepping up is calling for the ball and going one-on-one. But you're right, a Trent Frazier type would be really helpful. Even though they're new, I'm still disappointed with Mayer and Shannon in this regard. They've been around the block and should know better.

Underwood was in a tight spot with having to fill so many holes this year. He had to bring in some veteran players, and at the moment it's not working out too well for him. Kinda feel like it's going to be a roll of the dice every year with all of the player movement, you can do some homework on your transfer targets but it's probably pretty tough to get the inside dirt on how guys are in terms of leadership and the off-court stuff.

Not pointed at you specifically, but I keep seeing this thing about Hawkins leading the team in turnovers and it's kind of overblown. You know who led our team in turnovers in '20 and '21? A lot of that is a function of him having the ball more than anyone else. You can debate the merits of that strategy, but the guy with the ball trying to make plays is the guy who will turn it over. To some extent, it's the cost of doing business.
 
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