Pregame: Illinois vs Indiana, Thursday, January 19th, 7:30pm CT, FS1

[sitka]

I will be there....I promise I will be loud....looking for an O & B 8pt win....

NOISE, NOISE, NOISE!!!

 

[21ChampaignSt]

I think it's interesting how different age bands of Illinois fans feel differently about our various rivals. I'm 25 and was talking to my dad, who is 60, about it a couple weeks ago at the Northwestern game. For people my age, at least in my experience, Purdue is definitely more hated than Indiana. For older groups though it's the other way around usually. I think Indiana's lack of success lately and the ongoing rivalry between Purdue and Illinois engineering has fueled a lot of that.

I'm about 7 years older than you and for me, IU is the main rival. Since I started really paying attention to basketball circa 2001, Purdue has 3 conference championships, and has made it past the sweet 16 one time (an elite 8 in 2019). They're a fine program but wasting any hatred on them feels unbecoming. Plus, they haven't had as many annoying personalities or extracurricular drama as some other rivals (IU and IDKWTI, Iowa and Pearl, Michigan ducking their way to a "championship").

Now to be fair, IU has only made it past the S16 once in the same time period (a FF in 2002) and they also have just 3 conference championships. But I think I'm old enough that I inherited some of the Knight vs Henson animosity. Plus, as has been discussed already, their fans tend to be on the delusional and entitled side.

All that said, I think geography is as much as if not more of a factor in determining our fans' rival of choice.

 

[Battle89]

I believe it's a bit more than generational, though that's a strong component. The sustained success of Branch McCracken (who coached IU form the late '30s through the mid '60s) and, even more so, Bob Knight is a major factor. Back in the day when only the conference champion made it to the NCAA tourney, McCracken's teams finished ahead of great Illinois teams by a hair several times in the early '50s. But it was Knight's open contempt for Lou Henson, his self-righteousness, and general demeanor, that really rubbed my generation the wrong way. (I grew up in Columbus in the '70s and early '80s watching Ohio State as a kid and Knight, though a player on the OSU NC team in the early '60s, was despised there as well.)

In contrast, Purdue had strong teams for decades but I never got the sense our fans hated them. They were particularly solid in the '80s, and always seemed to have the Illini's number then (they finished ahead of our classic '83-'84 team and beat us twice that season.) For me, however, I respected Gene Keady and didn't begrudge him success. And that Illinois-Purdue engineering rivalry has been going on for well over a century (and, I'm happy to say, I can't recall a time when they've ever outranked us in the Top 10.)

Even today I don't despise Purdue. I like Painter and his teams. It grates to lose to them but I I don't fulminate about it, whereas I have a deep-seated, visceral dislike of IU basketball and its fans. For someone your age, you likely have no memory of Mike Davis (poor guy) or even the Cheating Kelvinator, and definitely no memory of Knight at IU. At best you might recall Creepy Crean, and Archie What's-His-Name. I actually like and respect Woodson but, as a native Ohioan and Illini alum, I can't generate more disdain of a program than I have for Indiana's (not even Iowa, which I know is blasphemy to many of my Illini brethren.)

I draw a line somewhere between hating the person and hating the institution. Best example is Iowa - others dislike that school more than I do, though my hate for Bruce Pearl is unmatched. So I'd rather see his current school lose (unless we are playing Iowa).

Re: the schools you mention above, I think the delineator is championships. Our visceral hatred (and their never-ending arrogance) stems from the fact that Indiana won it all, and more than once. Purdue, at least in my generation, was just similar to us. Long-term strong and respected coach, a Big Ten title here and there, but no national championships. Shared dislike of Indiana, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc.

At least that is how I felt as a student. I have grown to dislike Purdue more in my older years, for personal reasons. And very recently, for the poaching on the football side.

 

[foby]

We will win.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

(they finished ahead of our classic '83-'84 team and beat us twice that season.)

Agree with everything you said except this. We split with Purdue that season and tied them for the B1G championship (Lou’s only B1G title). Purdue with Jim Rowinski did beat us twice the year before though.

 

[sacraig]

I think it's interesting how different age bands of Illinois fans feel differently about our various rivals. I'm 25 and was talking to my dad, who is 60, about it a couple weeks ago at the Northwestern game. For people my age, at least in my experience, Purdue is definitely more hated than Indiana. For older groups though it's the other way around usually. I think Indiana's lack of success lately and the ongoing rivalry between Purdue and Illinois engineering has fueled a lot of that.

It's really a rivalry between Purdue and literally every other engineering school. Purdue has a massive marketing apparatus pushing the narrative that Purdue basically owns engineering across a great many fields nationwide. It's pervasive and obnoxious.

 

[altgeld88]

Agree with everything you said except this. We split with Purdue that season and tied them for the B1G championship (Lou’s only B1G title). Purdue with Jim Rowinski did beat us twice the year before though.

Thanks. I knew they beat us twice one of those years. The one in Champaign was a buzzer-beater IIRC.

 

[altgeld88]

It's really a rivalry between Purdue and literally every other engineering school. Purdue has a massive marketing apparatus pushing the narrative that Purdue basically owns engineering across a great many fields nationwide. It's pervasive and obnoxious.

... and has existed for decades. I recall interning with a Purdue nuke engineer from Chicago who had a major 'tude until I pointed out our objective primacy and asked him to produce evidence otherwise. Boy did he dislike me.

 

[RML]

(1) Whatever one may criticize of John Mellencamp, he puts on an excellent show. I was a fan for many years of his post-Cougar work, and he seemed to have a genuine love for the Midwest and its working people . In six years in Champaign (enjoying some memorable concerts at Mabel's and Foellinger Auditorium) his gig at the AH in Fall 1985 was among the best I saw.

Sorry for straying off-topic. Back to basics: destroy them without mercy.

Maybe a Mellencamp thread? /s I saw him (as John Cougar) at the AH as the warm up band for the Kinks, circa 1980.

 

[Mr. Roberts]

I think it's interesting how different age bands of Illinois fans feel differently about our various rivals. I'm 25 and was talking to my dad, who is 60, about it a couple weeks ago at the Northwestern game. For people my age, at least in my experience, Purdue is definitely more hated than Indiana. For older groups though it's the other way around usually. I think Indiana's lack of success lately and the ongoing rivalry between Purdue and Illinois engineering has fueled a lot of that.

Both Illinois and Purdue are outstanding engineering schools. Illinois, however, has gotten so ludicrously expensive that i steered my son to Purdue. Illinois was not worth double the price (In-state for Purdue vs. Out-of-state at Illinois).

In my 40 years of living in Indiana, Purdue engineers have always been respectful of my Illini brethern, as we have all acquitted ourselves well professionally. Around.these parts.its more mutual respect than hated rivals. But boy i hated Jo Barry Carroll and Russell Cross back in the day.

 

[spotter]

IL 86
IU 73

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

2 questions
1. When is Luke Goode coming back?
2. When is Zac Perrin going to play or is he?

Goode should be here pretty soon ... Just depends how he is feeling ... Everyone just needs to relax a little because he is gonna be rusty and this team is playing well ... Brad will be extremely selective about PT and working him back into the rotation ...

Perrin ... I doubt we see him this season unless there is an injury ... He's on the same plan as Moretti ...

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

ILL 78

IU 63

 

[altgeld88]

Both Illinois and Purdue are outstanding engineering schools. Illinois, however, has gotten so ludicrously expensive that i steered my son to Purdue. Illinois was not worth double the price (In-state for Purdue vs. Out-of-state at Illinois).

In my 40 years of living in Indiana, Purdue engineers have always been respectful of my Illini brethern, as we have all acquitted ourselves well professionally. Around.these parts.its more mutual respect than hated rivals. But boy i hated Jo Barry Carroll and Russell Cross back in the day.

I admired Mitch Daniels' stewardship as Purdue president recently. He's a role model for what a modern university president should champion.

 

[SkyysNotFalling]

Was off by 1 point in my Minnesota game thread prediction….

Illinois 71
Loosiers 54

 

[RockyMtnIllini81]

A favorite finish vs. Indiana - #1 at the time. Everyone thought the ball would go to Brandon Paul and Tyler Griffey just slipped in for the layup!

 

[Ignatius Shang]

So why Indiana began the BIG season with a record of 2-4? They ranked the highest in preseason BIG and I thought it was a somewhat legitimate estimation as they had their star stayed and added a five-star recruit. What happened to them?

 

[uofi7477]

John Mellencamp was from Seymour, IN, NOT Bloomington.

He went to Vincennes University (so did my sister at the same time).

He’s kind of a legend in southern IL and IN. Your comment on the three chords, you obviously only listened to the first two albums.

* You DID say that Bloomington, IN is the home of JM, but it is not.

Yikes, I am not convinced Mellencamp is a bragging point for Indiana no matter what burg he is from. But no such thing as Good or Bad Taste though, just Personal Taste so...

 

[RichardKeenesCousin]

I'm about 7 years older than you and for me, IU is the main rival. Since I started really paying attention to basketball circa 2001, Purdue has 3 conference championships, and has made it past the sweet 16 one time (an elite 8 in 2019). They're a fine program but wasting any hatred on them feels unbecoming. Plus, they haven't had as many annoying personalities or extracurricular drama as some other rivals (IU and IDKWTI, Iowa and Pearl, Michigan ducking their way to a "championship").

Now to be fair, IU has only made it past the S16 once in the same time period (a FF in 2002) and they also have just 3 conference championships. But I think I'm old enough that I inherited some of the Knight vs Henson animosity. Plus, as has been discussed already, their fans tend to be on the delusional and entitled side.

All that said, I think geography is as much as if not more of a factor in determining our fans' rival of choice.

its starts with this for me.

 

[iufan2012]

So why Indiana began the BIG season with a record of 2-4? They ranked the highest in preseason BIG and I thought it was a somewhat legitimate estimation as they had their star stayed and added a five-star recruit. What happened to them?

Short answer is a combination of Race Thompson/Xavier Johnson being out with long term injuries and very questionable coaching from Woodson. They choked a 20 pt lead at Iowa and s the bed vs. Northwestern. Despite improving their 3pt% to a respectable 37%, they don't create enough opportunities for their shooters within the half court. Also, defensively they have dropped from arguably the top defense in the BIG last year to middle of the pack at best. Even if IU competes well tomorrow, I anticipate a double digit win for the Illini. The hope is X and Race are back within a month, so this team can be better than a bubble team.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

To bring everyone back to earth, torvik says we've had the easiest conference schedule to date. Obviously context matters, and these past 4 wins feel really good after the previous 3 losses. But in reality, 4-0 was expected. These next 3 will really tell us a lot. 2 tough home games, and our toughest road game yet. 2-1 would be good enough, 3-0 would have us back to talking about how high our tournament seeding can go.

FWIW, Indiana has the toughest remaining schedule. If they can't figure out how to win without Xavier and Race......they're going to finish bottom half of the conference again. Too bad.

Eh, I personally think that those models are particularly worthless this year. Who are these significantly better teams we have yet to play? Only Purdue looks ahead of the pack, and MSU just took them to the brink ... a few days after we beat MSU. Don't get me wrong, I think it's fine to not get TOO far ahead of ourselves, but the 4-game win streak isn't just about the teams we have beaten - it's about HOW we have beaten them.

We have absolutely dominated the "lesser" teams (and let's not forget Purdue needed OT to win at Nebraska and Minnesota literally won AT Ohio State...), and we have showed immense mental toughness and togetherness in taking down the other two teams (Wisconsin and Michigan State, the latter of which was beating us by 9 in the second half). If we play like we played at Minnesota, we will beat Indiana by 20 tomorrow.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

A favorite finish vs. Indiana - #1 at the time. Everyone thought the ball would go to Brandon Paul and Tyler Griffey just slipped in for the layup!

The image of Tyler Griffey laying that one in while Cody Zeller is looking on with a "oh, crap" look on his face was my screen saver for quite a few years.

 

[alaskaillini]

It's really a rivalry between Purdue and literally every other engineering school. Purdue has a massive marketing apparatus pushing the narrative that Purdue basically owns engineering across a great many fields nationwide. It's pervasive and obnoxious.

Purdue's problem is that they are not even the best engineering school in Indiana.

 

[Chad Fleck]

As much as I enjoy that Griffen layup to beat Indiana, it reminds me of the Groce Era and that makes me less happy than our current situation.

 

[Bigtex]

So why Indiana began the BIG season with a record of 2-4? They ranked the highest in preseason BIG and I thought it was a somewhat legitimate estimation as they had their star stayed and added a five-star recruit. What happened to them?

Injuries..... but not being all that good last year (12 seed and 9th with 9-11 in B1G) and bringing back the same players (plus freshman) experience doesn't equate to the best team in the conference...