I think I can get on board with those grades. I probably have more patience than others when it comes to tournament success just due to the complete randomness of it. Though, as others have pointed out, postseason canceled in '20, R32 in '21, R32 in '22 and the fact that he has beaten a 5 seed as a 12 seed and beaten a 3 seed as a 14 seed.
Pregame: Illinois vs Arkansas, Thursday, March 16th, 3:30pm CT, TBS
- Status
I think I can get on board with those grades. I probably have more patience than others when it comes to tournament success just due to the complete randomness of it. Though, as others have pointed out, postseason canceled in '20, R32 in '21, R32 in '22 and the fact that he has beaten a 5 seed as a 12 seed and beaten a 3 seed as a 14 seed.
I am waiting for our turn at magic ride. I have only seen one Illini win over a higher seed and that was in 2004 verses Cincy. The runs in 89 and 05 were expected because we had one of the, if not the best teams in the country those years. Please just give me one year were we come out of nowhere and make a run.
Without Lou, there may have been no Kruger or self.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I get the sentiment, but we lost five starters and we're slotted in as the #9 seed with an objectively tough road. In light of that, I am way more forgiving in my grades:
First Round = C: Objectively "meh" season, especially after the early highs. However, this was always going to be a wild card seasons with freshmen and transfers. It gets pushed up to "Average" given the specific draw in the NCAAs.
Second Round = B: Disappointing regular season, but we got a Tournament win as a technical underdog. My grade would also depend on how we perform against Kansas ... close loss where the returning guys look good is a lot better than an OSU-style dud.
Sweet Sixteen = A-: It's not perfect as a whole, but it gets the monkey off our back and involves taking down Self and the defending champs, KU. That's pretty damn good!
Elite Eight or beyond completely erases ANY negatives associated with our regular season and transforms the image of our program in a VERY positive way.
I had the great honor to meet Coach Henson one lucky day years ago when he was back coaching at New Mexico State after his time with the Illini.
We were standing at the ordering counter at a Popeyes Chicken restaurant on Telshor Boulevard in Las Cruces (it’s no longer... it's something else now). After he placed his order for something like 400 boxes of chicken (for some occasion going on at the time... and while the staff was picking themselves off the floor – not really, I think they knew he was coming in with that big order)... I introduced myself and shook his hand heartily and thanked him on behalf of Illini Nation for the great run the Flyin’ Illini had.
He smiled and thanked me as he must had probably done hundreds of times before with other grateful Illini fans over the years.
To this day I can’t look at a Popeyes Chicken place without thinking of Coach Henson.
ILLINIFAN2
- Des Moines, IA
Perhaps this has been discussed but there are many of us that will be at Buzzard Billy's before the game. It's located just south of Wells Fargo Arena a few blocks. I live here in Des Moines, feel free to DM if anyone wants restaurant recommendations for the downtown area, happy to assist.
Big Jack
- Decatur
I think this has nothing to do with schemes, game plans or bad coaching. Most everyone knew this team woud be a work in progress. There was some talent but also almost all new pieces to mesh and fit together. That being said I think this team did under perform to some extent, but I will not blame it BU. I blame a very strong and level conference of teams that are completely different from one another. Unfortunately we did not match up good with certain teams like Penn State, NW, Maryland and OSU (without Keys). You could even add Iowa as well. Teams that play with a traditional Big matched up good with us but teams with 4 good shooting guards and a good PG are to difficult for our lineups.
PSU is a matchup nightmare. They have a classic tough PG surrounded by 4 shooters. That is not a scheme that is purely personnel and we weren't going draw anything to beat them. We just lacked the right players. We might have been able to guard better with a different lineup but then we have players on the floor who lack the offensive skills needed to score.
+1000...and I'm as guilty as anyone. You get used to a certain level of achievement or results over time, and you want MORE. Then that achiever leaves and you drop, and you realize how good you had it, and how hard that level is to maintain. Keady would get his B10 championships, and Knight would get his NCAA titles, and we'd say why not us? But man Lou was really good for a really long time.
Henson>Self>Underwood>Kruger>Weber>Groce. I'm OK with this list, though I would change the first two if you extend beyond the Illini years to their full college careers. And when I do that, I see that it perfectly correlates to my perception of them (or their staffs) as recruiters.
I like the points you lay out, I’m fine with the bump on the R32 and S16 finishes. That being said this season means nothing with a first round exit and I stand by the overall talent on this team being better than the sum of what we’ve seen on the court. That for me makes this season very disappointing and a below average performance.
Very fair point.
At pure coaching, yes…and that’s what we’re talking about right?
What Lou meant to the program vs. the other two that’s a different story IMO.
Every time I express an opinion like this I feel like I killed a puppy or something. Lol
Or, I feel like I’m supposed to be verifying my Illini Fan-card credentials. Lol
It’s like saying Jesus Christ can’t a hit a curveball; around here. Lol
Last edited:
Even for older fans, Lou was probably the first Coach, so they likely look at him taking over a down Illinois program as building it up entirely from scratch, but it was a bit more of an Underwood situation. Illinois had a rich and proud history even then as Jones, Ruby, Mills and Combes combined for 11 Big Ten Titles between 1915-1963, it was just the slush fund scandal really effed us over until Henson put Illinois back on track. It feels pretty shocking to me that Illinois only won 1 Big Ten Title with Henson, but the Big Ten was pretty stacked then, especially with Bob Knight dominating.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
As a pure Xs and Os guy, Weber might have been the best of all of them. He was just woefully deficient in other areas.
the national
- the Front Range
Not sure who needs to see this but as a reminder….
the enemy of my enemy is my friend?
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I'll agree that a First Round exit is a very clear disappointment, and a Second Round loss will still leave a bitter taste in my mouth as a fan - after all, it was our inconsistency that got us that #9 seed and super tough Second Round game to begin with. But a Sweet Sixteen?? That practically negates the rest, given how our last two seasons have ended. With that said, though, if we were to beat Kansas to get to the Sweet Sixteen ... my attitude would IMMEDIATELY change to thinking, if we beat Kansas why can't we go to the Elite Eight or even Final Four?!
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
My dad said this at the time and I'm not sure I appreciated it because as a seventh grader when we made our 2005 run ... it was going to take A LOT to turn on Bruce Weber. But he said that he just wasn't sure Weber had the personality or charisma to be the head man for Illinois basketball. As I have gotten older and appreciated the politics and "image making" involved with running a college hoops program with a storied tradition, passionate/demanding fans and elite instate talent that comes with egos that are through the roof, I totally get what he means. Weber might have been a truly elite "Xs and Os" coach, but he just didn't seem to have that necessary swagger that Self, Henson, Underwood, etc. have.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Wish I could go, but I hope plenty of Illini fans join you and fill up our share of the arena! Wells Fargo is a pretty nice facility (I have seen state basketball tournaments and three concerts there), and Buzzard Billy's is a great pick! I went there before a Jimmy Buffett concert one time and had a blast, haha.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
I worried about BW from the outset, even with the talented teams he had, for just this reason. I recall in my early 30s in the late '90s watching the annual Michigan-Ohio State football game. Lloyd Carr v. John Cooper. Most years OSU had the better team and yet Cooper couldn't prevail. I recall seeing sideline cuts during the games to Carr and Cooper. Even when Michigan was trialing (and playing in Columbus) Carr looked steely, determined and confident. Coop, even two TDs ahead, looked like a dog caught in the midst of evacuating his bowels. I thought to myself at the time that those snapshots communicated a great deal to the players on the field, and spoke volumes about the intangible qualities that made Carr the better all-around coach.
Thought the same of BW. Brilliant strategist but didn't have the alpha court presence or recruiting chops to lead our program. Looked as if he were continually fearful of the ceiling collapsing. "Demetri, no!!" is what embodies that most to me. Well, that and the "fist" NC pregame talk. And the squeaky, imploring voice.
Anyway, one of many, many reasons why I make nightly sacrifices on my BU altar is that he communicates confidence, assertiveness, toughness, and resilience. Lon and Bill did, too, in a manner different from BU. BW just didn't.
Neither, frankly, did Lou as I recall him, but he possessed it to an extent and had the recruiting chops (with Jimmy) and the strategic acumen to overcome any deficiencies. And he never, as I recall, seemed fearful in the way that BW regularly did.
Memory is, of course, deceiving, especially my 35-year-old memories of Lou. But that's my take on the matter.
You are 100% correct, Henson definitely had that label of not winning the big game, but he also had some really close calls (Kentucky in Rupp, the '89 Final Four game) that would have changed his narrative completely. But talk about raising a program up from the ashes - that's what Henson did for Illinois basketball - he grew it from the pitts (the Illini went 5-18 and 8-18 the two years before he arrived) to National prominence and a consistent winner -after his son died tragically in a car accident he was not the same coach.
What we have today as a basketball program was in large part to the foundation Henson built
OrangeandBlueNews - Illini legend Lou Henson was the right guy at the right time
Illinois coaching legend Lou Henson passed away at the age of 88. Henson built a winning tradition at Illinois.illinois.rivals.com
I was a kid when Lou took over, so I had no idea at the time about Illinois rich history. Shoot, even Harv Schmidt had some really good teams. Having said that, Lou was the right guy at the right time for us. He was patient and willing to build a solid foundation for the program. In terms of standing in the Big 10, he had the misfortune to coach concurrently with 2 of the best ever in Knight and Keady, as well as other really strong coaches like Olson and Heathcoate.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
... and Johnny Orr and Bill Frieder at Michigan, and Jim Dutcher at Minnesota. Even Eldon Miller at OSU for the better part of a decade; he resurrected a program that had fallen far in the early/mid-'70s, and had some huge talent and top teams.
That coaching contingent in the conference from the mid-'70s through the '80s was top notch.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
^ It would be SO huge for Goode, Melendez and CoHawk to provide energy and some scoring threat in this Tournament. We have a lot of talented players who can put the ball in the hoop one way or another, but we just haven't usually had them all "feeling it" at the same time. It cannot be the TSJ or Matthew Mayer OR Coleman Hawkins show. We need a team effort.
Goode knocking down a three or two to open things up would also be huge and help get/keep us in an offensive flow.
Goode knocking down a three or two to open things up would also be huge and help get/keep us in an offensive flow.
- Status