Illini Basketball

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#376      

the national

the national
the Front Range
the national
One Man Fast Break said:
Underwood can get kids here, but he can't keep them. If you can't retain talent, and you can't outscheme the opposition, then what do we have here?
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I would argue that his big ten record says otherwise. It may be that his “style points” aren’t as high as you’d like. He values very specific attributes, mainly on the defensive side and thus offensively will sacrifice to ensure he has the hardest defenders on the court. (See Demonte for example). I do think he’s evolving and wants to be more athletic. But outher coaches couldn’t beat our scheme very often over the last 4 years.
 
#377      

john1952

john1952
john1952
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#379      

Rap47

R
Rap47
the national said:
I would argue that his big ten record says otherwise. It may be that his “style points” aren’t as high as you’d like. He values very specific attributes, mainly on the defensive side and thus offensively will sacrifice to ensure he has the hardest defenders on the court. (See Demonte for example). I do think he’s evolving and wants to be more athletic. But outher coaches couldn’t beat our scheme very often over the last 4 years.
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Who has left other than Pods would you want back?
 
#381      

Illini in Italy

Illini in Italy
Illini in Italy
One Man Fast Break said:
I think Underwood can recruit pretty well and put together successful rosters, so from like "GM" standpoint, he's a good program builder. And if we were still in the days where kids were "trapped" and couldn't transfer without sitting that'd lead to a lot of overall success, but yeah as an in-game type of coach, he's obviously not rated super highly. Like yeah, three pointers are good, analytics and all. Yet this team was garbage at them, but we never seemed to get it coached out to STOP. SHOOTING. THREES. A better coach can make those adjustments mid-season, a guy like Underwood just hopes that they'll start making them and the problem will magically fix itself.

The big issue though is that now kids can transfer out without being punished for it. Alan Griffin, Adam Miller, Andre Curbelo, Brandin Podziemski, Skyy Clark, now looking like Dain Dainja and Jayden Epps. These aren't guys that had no future, we're just bleeding out recruited talent left and right. Heck, Kofi Cockburn was an All-American and even he from some reason was considering jumping ship by going in the Portal rather than play for a Coach that he knew could implement a system around him already, and then eventually did to go play for a garbage team in the Japanese B League (follow your dreams..) Underwood can get kids here, but he can't keep them. If you can't retain talent, and you can't outscheme the opposition, then what do we have here? We had 2 first team All Americans and got a couple of good seasons that ultimately resulted in two Round of 32s out of it. Now we're going to slip further and further unless we can stop all the player turnover.

Underwood rebuilt the program and for that I'm grateful. He was a step up from Groce, but it does look increasingly more likely, and as much as I hate to admit it, that the Illini are going to have to make a move if they're going to get back to being the program they want to be.
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Every single team is now going through the roster upheaval we are. Every one. There were 1,123 players (includes 358 grad transfers) that transferred last year (2022) out of 5,510 NCAA Division 1 players (ncaa.org). The portal has and will continue to wreak havoc on roster construction across all of college basketball, including the lower divisions as they will continue to lose talented upperclassmen to P5 schools. if this year is the "depths" to which we can sink (and I think that's the case), then I'm OK with this based on the previous decade plus of looking up at the rest of the college basketball world.

I think the only move Illinois should make is shedding some so-called basketball fans spouting nonsense about the best coach we've had in almost 20 years. Just MHO.
 
#382      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
Illini in Italy said:
Every single team is now going through the roster upheaval we are. Every one. There were 1,123 players (includes 358 grad transfers) that transferred last year (2022) out of 5,510 NCAA Division 1 players (ncaa.org). The portal has and will continue to wreak havoc on roster construction across all of college basketball, including the lower divisions as they will continue to lose talented upperclassmen to P5 schools. if this year is the "depths" to which we can sink (and I think that's the case), then I'm OK with this based on the previous decade plus of looking up at the rest of the college basketball world.

I think the only move Illinois should make is shedding some so-called basketball fans spouting nonsense about the best coach we've had in almost 20 years. Just MHO.
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Morgan Freeman Applause GIF by The Academy Awards
 
#383      

BashCtIllini

BashCtIllini
BashCtIllini
Illini in Italy said:
In the real world there is no definition of "average" that would be correct. Best B1G record last four years total, B1G championships, three tourney appearances (which by definition describes 'above average' as only 68 out of 363 teams make the tourney) . . . it must be so sad to live in that blue world.
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well let's not pretend we are competing against all 363 teams. We are competing against the ACC, Big East, Big 12, SEC, Pac 12, and other Big Ten teams along with a few stragglers.

So the proper way to look at the accomplishment in making the tourney is to add up the number of schools from those conferences, add in the likes of Gonzaga and Houston, then compare that to 68 - the number of mid and low major automatic bids. So if we say 24 conference have no legit chance of winning it all then we start with a number of 44 not 68. In the P6 conferences + Gonzaga and Houston you've got 78 teams.

So you could really say there are 78 teams vying for 44 spots.
 
#385      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
BashCtIllini said:
well let's not pretend we are competing against all 363 teams. We are competing against the ACC, Big East, Big 12, SEC, Pac 12, and other Big Ten teams along with a few stragglers.

So the proper way to look at the accomplishment in making the tourney is to add up the number of schools from those conferences, add in the likes of Gonzaga and Houston, then compare that to 68 - the number of mid and low major automatic bids. So if we say 24 conference have no legit chance of winning it all then we start with a number of 44 not 68. In the P6 conferences + Gonzaga and Houston you've got 78 teams.

So you could really say there are 78 teams vying for 44 spots.
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So using Kenpom (Illinois #34) where does that put us?

Although, I'm still keeping in mind this is a down season through hashing all of this out.
 
#389      

Calvin

C
Calvin
Illini in Italy said:
Every single team is now going through the roster upheaval we are. Every one. There were 1,123 players (includes 358 grad transfers) that transferred last year (2022) out of 5,510 NCAA Division 1 players (ncaa.org). The portal has and will continue to wreak havoc on roster construction across all of college basketball, including the lower divisions as they will continue to lose talented upperclassmen to P5 schools. if this year is the "depths" to which we can sink (and I think that's the case), then I'm OK with this based on the previous decade plus of looking up at the rest of the college basketball world.

I think the only move Illinois should make is shedding some so-called basketball fans spouting nonsense about the best coach we've had in almost 20 years. Just MHO.
Click to expand...

I looked up the NCAA database for 2022 men's basketball, and came out with 1649 Div 1 transfers including grad transfers. Not sure why we would have different numbers, but it shows 853 March transfers, 520 April transfers, and a trickle in the other months for 276. My only point is to support the fact that there are tons of transfers, and it's still relatively early in the NIL era. I'm not exactly sure of the math, but if some number run out of eligibility, and there are that many transfers among the remaining, the percentage of transfers is staggering --has to be well north of 30%. Would seem to me that an average program would have roughly 4 transfers. So what used to look like a program self-destructing is now average for turnover.

NCAA.org
 
#391      

Illiniaaron

I
Geneseo, IL
Illiniaaron
Big Jack said:
What's the old saying about giving an inch and taking a mile?🤔🤔

They could use the Purdue FDU game for future officiating training. I saw one shot of Edey with both arms being grabbed, another guy on his back. Just crazy!
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At the end of the game he had gouge marks on his arms. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy imo.
 
#395      

Overleaf

Overleaf
Overleaf
The Dying Illini said:
Yes him and Jayden. Epps dad is not happy with the way things played down the stretch
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I really like Epps. Being a freshman guard in the big 10 is just a tall order and I think he did an amazing job as a Freshmen. I'd love to see him mature here over the next couple of years. I remember watching Dee/Deron/Luther mature. It just takes time....the difference between 18 and 21 is far greater than 27 and 30. There is something to be said for organic growth.....ILL had success when we had it.
 
#396      

PIT_ILL

P
PIT_ILL
NarrowJ said:
What does that have to do with Illinois basketball other than he coached here 20 years ago?

EDIT: I *think* what you are saying is we should exercise a bit more patience?
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^This.

The tourney is such a stars aligning thing that small sample sizes can't really be used. The fact is Underwood has substantially elevated the program from where it has been. Having an odd year where almost nothing works out and being a 9 seed is a pretty good bad season. If that is the floor during his tenure I think we should all be pretty pleased. Consecutive Big10 titles is nothing to sneeze at either. Everyone wants the elusive NC but most coaches will tell you there is an awful lot of luck involved in that.
 
#398      

Illini in Italy

Illini in Italy
Illini in Italy
Calvin said:
I looked up the NCAA database for 2022 men's basketball, and came out with 1649 Div 1 transfers including grad transfers. Not sure why we would have different numbers, but it shows 853 March transfers, 520 April transfers, and a trickle in the other months for 276. My only point is to support the fact that there are tons of transfers, and it's still relatively early in the NIL era. I'm not exactly sure of the math, but if some number run out of eligibility, and there are that many transfers among the remaining, the percentage of transfers is staggering --has to be well north of 30%. Would seem to me that an average program would have roughly 4 transfers. So what used to look like a program self-destructing is now average for turnover.

NCAA.org
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Not sure of the differences, here's my reference. One you select only 2022 and basketball, I get this result. I agree that's a boat load of transfers . . . . the data I referenced shows only athletes that changed school, not those that entered the portal and didn't transfer for whatever reason.

NCAA Transfer Portal Numbers

95A7627D-2034-4C72-9EA8-7A4DADAB47A2.png
 
#400      

hoopsfan47

H
hoopsfan47
Idea Gardener said:
What was he not happy about?
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Not sure there is a single Illini fan who was happy about the way the season turned out down the stretch. All the more motivation for returning players to double down and work hard.

As the season approached, I was very concerned about team chemistry and leadership...and could leaned toward those two being highly questionable to answer in a positive way. Neither Mayer nor TSJ seemed to me to be strong in building either of those aspects in the way Ayo, Kofi, Trent, and DFW had provided.

As far as next year, I look for Goode and RJ to provide both along with Epps...and Hawkins if we are blessed to see him return. Ty may jump in and lead as he has the perfect mindset to fill his role and will likely become a consistent 10 and 7 guy as a starter if he gets the nod. Great guys to have. DD will need to step up and elevate his game defensively and with ball security, but he will likely have the spotlight every night.

In reality, I am not expecting all these guys to suit up in Nov., but BU knows they are the key to success, along with another guard and big who can play immediately. But I will not be surprised if all return either.

But if there is not a deliberate effort to get help for them all in free throw technique, the ceiling as a bit lower. No reason that aspect cannot be improved...it just needs to be acknowledged and addressed correctly. Shooting 1000 FTs a day is not the answer as they will mostly just get good at missing and the level needed for success will remain out of reach. You can't fly to the moon if you don't leave the earth...and you must embrace the science and physiology.
 
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