Second and Chalmers or Obelix is that you?
Second and Chalmers or Obelix is that you?
Well this is repulsiveCubs will stink for another 100 years! Go Cardinals
Couple that with the Matthew Mayer “punch”/altercation and Underwood’s loss/lack of control and “culture,” Whitman had to be livid. Skyy Clark leaving, no matter how positively Underwood spun it, was a National negative for the program and university. The public shaming of Epps on National TV later and the Mayer Monster debacle couldn’t have helped, either. Your well-thought out theory, AttDef, seems very plausible…
I am as outside as you can get. I will take this opportunity to stress that my original post is conjecture that i think puts the pieces i know together in the most seamless way, but it is still conjecture and is more likely to be wrong than right. Nothing but respect for the true insiders who take the time to come and share what we otherwise would never know, even when it is a psyop!Great read! You sure you’re not an insider?
What was the shaming of Epps?Couple that with the Matthew Mayer “punch”/altercation and Underwood’s loss/lack of control and “culture,” Whitman had to be livid. Skyy Clark leaving, no matter how positively Underwood spun it, was a National negative for the program and university. The public shaming of Epps on National TV later and the Mayer Monster debacle couldn’t have helped, either. Your well-thought out theory, AttDef, seems very plausible…
Bingo and we’re WINNING in MBB, WBB, and FB now … People LOVE a winner … And will be more than willing to give more and more to win big and bigger …
I’m not going to release details but Josh knows how to get funds if he needs them … I’ll leave it at that …
Oh Obelix was a bore, that’s hurtfulSecond and Chalmers or Obelix is that you?
Brad's sideline demeanor changed dramatically after Skyy left. There were no more back-from-commercial 'Look at Brad give it to them' segments. He yelled some, but he was different. He came out at halftime and sat on the bench. The coach-speak was there, but he usually wants us to believe him, and now he was just reciting the lines. ... I think that, while no coach could ever say it, NO ONE is more excited about this year being behind us than Brad Underwood."I think i'm seeing this different than most outsiders, so i want to offer a another scenario and wait for Indy to shoot me down.
I said in a Pre-Indybomb post
"Brad's sideline demeanor changed dramatically after Skyy left. There were no more back-from-commercial 'Look at Brad give it to them' segments. He yelled some, but he was different. He came out at halftime and sat on the bench. The coach-speak was there, but he usually wants us to believe him, and now he was just reciting the lines. ... I think that, while no coach could ever say it, NO ONE is more excited about this year being behind us than Brad Underwood."
At the time I attributed it to the not having player buy in, but the Indybomb puts it in a different perspective. I think Indy's info makes it plain that there is friction (at the very least) between Underwood and Whitman
Let's talk about the Indybomb first though.
I see Miller as a near fait accompli at this point. Not only did Indy come and spill a lot of beans, he (or she or they) stayed and answered questions and added details for hours! That just doesn't happen! It was awesome. (Thanks Indy!) Was it a psyop? If Indy does carry the imprimatur of the AD, then i think it was a psyop of the best kind. Lets look at what the Indybomb says to some different groups.
1: To Brad Underwood: Don't let the door hit ya.
2: To other ADs interviewing Brad Underwood: Don't overpay, there won't be a bidding war.
3: To Xavier's AD: Get your bag ready. Let's make this quick.
4: To our players: Don't put your name in the portal just yet.
5: To our fans: The jolt you will feel is not the floor dropping out, but the elevator starting to rise.
6: To EVERYONE: Josh Whitman is both the best boss you could hope to have and a stone cold killer.
Now Indy did say that there was still a chance that Underwood could be here next year, but assuming everything he says is true to the best of his knowledge (which i do), we have reached a point where the Athletic Department would like Underwood to leave. I think we can forgive him for looking at other gigs this year because it seems Whitman is encouraging him to. So how did we get here?
Underwood looking at jobs every year? Nah. It isn't endearing, but Josh is out here being the best boss he can be, he doesn't worry about that stuff. Our record / a disappointing tournament finish? Josh isn't sweating that. I think that Underwood's demeanor change marks the timing, and that the reason is... Skyy Clark.
Not Skyy Clark the individual though. Skyy Clark the idea. The highly rated player brought in with a generous NIL investment, with next to Zero ROI. Josh Whitman's basketball coach said 'I want that guy,' spent someone else's money on that guy, got that guy, and chased that guy away in half a season. I am pretty sure that there was mention of unhappy donors at some point (i don't remember if that was from Indy though), and i think the donor who covered Skyy's NIL would have had right to be upset.
We all know Underwood's style isn't for everyone - players and fans alike. That's never been a big deal - kids transfer out, so be it. But with NIL, when you scare off a kid, you risk scaring off a donor as well. If you were a donor who ponied up for Skyy Clark in 2023, how excited are you to be ponying up for his replacement in 2024? Whitman understands this well CANNOT run dry. CAN NOT!
For a coach with Underwood's style, you'd better know exactly who 'your guys' are when you are recruiting, because you can't afford to pay a kid like Skyy and be too aggro for them, but you also need the pool of 'your guys' to include enough high level players to take you to the next level, and to be lucky enough to win the recruiting battle to get 'your guy' to Illinois. This is stacking the deck against him. Most schools can spend their NIL money on the best available player, and end up with a lot more options.
I imagine the Clark situation highlighted this arithmetic for Whitman, Whitman shared those concerns with Brad, and I would wager that conversation went poorly. Very poorly. For the rest of the season Underwood poorly pantomimed positivity while we could see the team chucking their way to oblivion. "I wouldn't want to play us." "This team is built for March."
Underwood is eager to go, Whitman is ready when it happens, and Indy makes sure we all have our popcorn ready when the time comes.
(Note to insiders: if i am way off, feel free to correct me!)
“Oh, East St. Louis? Nice to meet you, have a great day.”Best way for me to describe where I’m from is…
“I’m from Illinois”
*oh Chicago?*
“Nowhere near Chicago… southern Illinois”
*oh is that like Peoria or something??*
“Listen, I am basically from St. Louis just on the other side of the Mississippi”
Narrator: There wasn't. A coach got in a kids face and didn't get out of it for a bit. Said kid tried to make his way down the bench without listening to the coach, making it look worse.What was the shaming of Epps?
Short hand versionI have no idea…
That dude. I hope he’s okay somewhere.Oh Obelix was a bore, that’s hurtful
There's a name i haven't heard in forever. I miss the old crew.That dude. I hope he’s okay somewhere.
Short hand version
what game was it?Narrator: There wasn't. A coach got in a kids face and didn't get out of it for a bit. Said kid tried to make his way down the bench without listening to the coach, making it look worse.
Confession time: my 12 year old son really wanted a Skyy jersey for Christmas so we bought him one for $75… dude quit the team before my kid got to wear it to school ONE freaking time!!! Skyy can go pound sand…He got all of his NIL payments. He burned us then he spurned us.
Have to admit… fart noise made me laugh out loudAnd you didn’t even mention the “fart noise” he made during the embarrassing press do reence when he was asked about the leadership of TSJ.
It was not a great year for Brad.
I am just excited to potentially get more than one consecutive year out of my #0 jersey without having to redo the name on the back.Confession time: my 12 year old son really wanted a Skyy jersey for Christmas so we bought him one for $75… dude quit the team before my kid got to wear it to school ONE freaking time!!! Skyy can go pound sand…
I always heard that Collins had an affair with Reinsdorf’s wife.The real Doug Collins leaving the Bulls is one of the great untold stories of our time....It is right up there with Bobby Knight decking a particular sportswriter ad why the Illini didn't land Uwe Blab
Pretty sure it was with the daughter, not the wife.I always heard that Collins had an affair with Reinsdorf’s wife.
It was one of my favorite moments of the season.Have to admit… fart noise made me laugh out loud
I can’t remember. I’ve looked for the video that was posted in an earlier thread here on IL, and I can’t find it with the 100 or so pages that have been written in the past few days. I am not one who is adverse to tough live or a coach getting in a player‘s face to motivate him, but there was one video of Underwood screaming at Epps that went beyond the norm, in my opinion. I also did not approve of Epps ignoring his coach and walking away, but the optics of the entire video did not look positive to me…what game was it?