College Hoops Coaching Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#676      
Second and Chalmers or Obelix is that you?
Jerry Seinfeld GIF
 
#678      

NASchamp

Atlanta
Couple that with the Matthew Mayer “punch”/altercation and Underwood’s loss/lack of control and “culture,” Whitman had to be livid. Skyy Clark leaving, no matter how positively Underwood spun it, was a National negative for the program and university. The public shaming of Epps on National TV later and the Mayer Monster debacle couldn’t have helped, either. Your well-thought out theory, AttDef, seems very plausible…

The thing is, had we made it to the S16 or E8 (and of course further) most of those things would have been talking points (“look how much they had to overcome”, “all the speed bumps only brought them closer”, etc.) and things we generally would have looked back on and chuckled at the craziness. But given the poor end to the season and first round exit, they just stick up (even higher) as major red flags. I mean the MM antics alone…kind of funny if he performs and we win. But maddening when he doesn’t and we don’t.
 
#679      
Great read! You sure you’re not an insider?
I am as outside as you can get. I will take this opportunity to stress that my original post is conjecture that i think puts the pieces i know together in the most seamless way, but it is still conjecture and is more likely to be wrong than right. Nothing but respect for the true insiders who take the time to come and share what we otherwise would never know, even when it is a psyop!

I'd also like to add that i enjoyed Brad's SFA tourney appearances, and remember watching his OSU team against Bielein's Michigan in the tourney and wishing that we'd have moved on from Groce a year earlier when Brad was an option. But I am a bigger Josh Whitman fan.
 
#680      
Couple that with the Matthew Mayer “punch”/altercation and Underwood’s loss/lack of control and “culture,” Whitman had to be livid. Skyy Clark leaving, no matter how positively Underwood spun it, was a National negative for the program and university. The public shaming of Epps on National TV later and the Mayer Monster debacle couldn’t have helped, either. Your well-thought out theory, AttDef, seems very plausible…
What was the shaming of Epps?
 
#681      
Bingo and we’re WINNING in MBB, WBB, and FB now … People LOVE a winner … And will be more than willing to give more and more to win big and bigger …

I’m not going to release details but Josh knows how to get funds if he needs them … I’ll leave it at that …

1679619494287.png
 
#683      
I think i'm seeing this different than most outsiders, so i want to offer a another scenario and wait for Indy to shoot me down.

I said in a Pre-Indybomb post
"Brad's sideline demeanor changed dramatically after Skyy left. There were no more back-from-commercial 'Look at Brad give it to them' segments. He yelled some, but he was different. He came out at halftime and sat on the bench. The coach-speak was there, but he usually wants us to believe him, and now he was just reciting the lines. ... I think that, while no coach could ever say it, NO ONE is more excited about this year being behind us than Brad Underwood."
At the time I attributed it to the not having player buy in, but the Indybomb puts it in a different perspective. I think Indy's info makes it plain that there is friction (at the very least) between Underwood and Whitman

Let's talk about the Indybomb first though.

I see Miller as a near fait accompli at this point. Not only did Indy come and spill a lot of beans, he (or she or they) stayed and answered questions and added details for hours! That just doesn't happen! It was awesome. (Thanks Indy!) Was it a psyop? If Indy does carry the imprimatur of the AD, then i think it was a psyop of the best kind. Lets look at what the Indybomb says to some different groups.

1: To Brad Underwood: Don't let the door hit ya.
2: To other ADs interviewing Brad Underwood: Don't overpay, there won't be a bidding war.
3: To Xavier's AD: Get your bag ready. Let's make this quick.
4: To our players: Don't put your name in the portal just yet.
5: To our fans: The jolt you will feel is not the floor dropping out, but the elevator starting to rise.
6: To EVERYONE: Josh Whitman is both the best boss you could hope to have and a stone cold killer.


Now Indy did say that there was still a chance that Underwood could be here next year, but assuming everything he says is true to the best of his knowledge (which i do), we have reached a point where the Athletic Department would like Underwood to leave. I think we can forgive him for looking at other gigs this year because it seems Whitman is encouraging him to. So how did we get here?

Underwood looking at jobs every year? Nah. It isn't endearing, but Josh is out here being the best boss he can be, he doesn't worry about that stuff. Our record / a disappointing tournament finish? Josh isn't sweating that. I think that Underwood's demeanor change marks the timing, and that the reason is... Skyy Clark.

Not Skyy Clark the individual though. Skyy Clark the idea. The highly rated player brought in with a generous NIL investment, with next to Zero ROI. Josh Whitman's basketball coach said 'I want that guy,' spent someone else's money on that guy, got that guy, and chased that guy away in half a season. I am pretty sure that there was mention of unhappy donors at some point (i don't remember if that was from Indy though), and i think the donor who covered Skyy's NIL would have had right to be upset.

We all know Underwood's style isn't for everyone - players and fans alike. That's never been a big deal - kids transfer out, so be it. But with NIL, when you scare off a kid, you risk scaring off a donor as well. If you were a donor who ponied up for Skyy Clark in 2023, how excited are you to be ponying up for his replacement in 2024? Whitman understands this well CANNOT run dry. CAN NOT!

For a coach with Underwood's style, you'd better know exactly who 'your guys' are when you are recruiting, because you can't afford to pay a kid like Skyy and be too aggro for them, but you also need the pool of 'your guys' to include enough high level players to take you to the next level, and to be lucky enough to win the recruiting battle to get 'your guy' to Illinois. This is stacking the deck against him. Most schools can spend their NIL money on the best available player, and end up with a lot more options.

I imagine the Clark situation highlighted this arithmetic for Whitman, Whitman shared those concerns with Brad, and I would wager that conversation went poorly. Very poorly. For the rest of the season Underwood poorly pantomimed positivity while we could see the team chucking their way to oblivion. "I wouldn't want to play us." "This team is built for March."

Underwood is eager to go, Whitman is ready when it happens, and Indy makes sure we all have our popcorn ready when the time comes.

(Note to insiders: if i am way off, feel free to correct me!)
Brad's sideline demeanor changed dramatically after Skyy left. There were no more back-from-commercial 'Look at Brad give it to them' segments. He yelled some, but he was different. He came out at halftime and sat on the bench. The coach-speak was there, but he usually wants us to believe him, and now he was just reciting the lines. ... I think that, while no coach could ever say it, NO ONE is more excited about this year being behind us than Brad Underwood."

I don’t know for sure if I wanna wade into it. I’m not 100% sure I care…BUT….

Do you remember the game he was silent and accused of pouting the whole game?
I dunno if he did or not; exactly…but it WAS definitely a departure from normal Brad…for sure.

How about the game he avoided the locker-room and when asked about it
he said somewhat gruffly he didn’t want to talk to his staff just yet…?

Okay cool. At the time I thought….hmmm maybe he’s getting into character? A timely pause?

I dunno? Was he still pissed at Geoff; like the brush-off I thought I saw on the sideline? Does Chester have halitosis?

I believe, this game came on the heels of the fart-noise heard round the net and the fiery, red-faced, intense huddles that were in full view of the camera…did a cautionary word come down from high…at about this point?

I have no idea…it’s totally above my pay grade…totally outta my depth…but you’re right. Something changed in Brad…AND it felt like he was basically going through the Kubler-Ross stages.

I have no doubt he’s relieved the season is over. It felt like he was forcing himself to say things he didn’t 100% believe off and on all season…and not like the encouraging, motivational coach-speak, hyperbole-y stuff that he does…(“I believe Kippper Nichols has an incredible motor and can be a solid player for us.” ex.) it was more than that. It felt more desperate and grasping at straws…a lot of undermining from players…inconsistent narratives…etc…it felt way more forced than normal…almost desperate at times. I’m sure he was exhausted and exasperated quite often this year.

In other news, I’m not gonna call Indy’s motives into question. Like most here say, I appreciate the info that he and L-Ville & EF Hutton graciously share…not saying you don’t necessarily…

I CAN see how the: info-bomb’s timing, the shift in tone, and just generally letting us see behind the curtain more than normal…might have lead you to conclude what you did however. I can see how it felt a little like name dropping…but like I said. I have no reason to call our insiders motives into question.
 
Last edited:
#684      

WINT

Kewanee, IL
Best way for me to describe where I’m from is…

“I’m from Illinois”

*oh Chicago?*

“Nowhere near Chicago… southern Illinois”

*oh is that like Peoria or something??*

“Listen, I am basically from St. Louis just on the other side of the Mississippi”

😂😂😂
“Oh, East St. Louis? Nice to meet you, have a great day.”
 
#691      

Cook

Richmond, VA
Narrator: There wasn't. A coach got in a kids face and didn't get out of it for a bit. Said kid tried to make his way down the bench without listening to the coach, making it look worse.
what game was it?
 
#694      
Confession time: my 12 year old son really wanted a Skyy jersey for Christmas so we bought him one for $75… dude quit the team before my kid got to wear it to school ONE freaking time!!! Skyy can go pound sand…
I am just excited to potentially get more than one consecutive year out of my #0 jersey without having to redo the name on the back.
Do it, TJ!
 
#695      
The real Doug Collins leaving the Bulls is one of the great untold stories of our time....It is right up there with Bobby Knight decking a particular sportswriter ad why the Illini didn't land Uwe Blab
I always heard that Collins had an affair with Reinsdorf’s wife.
 
#698      

chiefini

Rockford, Illinois
what game was it?
I can’t remember. I’ve looked for the video that was posted in an earlier thread here on IL, and I can’t find it with the 100 or so pages that have been written in the past few days. I am not one who is adverse to tough live or a coach getting in a player‘s face to motivate him, but there was one video of Underwood screaming at Epps that went beyond the norm, in my opinion. I also did not approve of Epps ignoring his coach and walking away, but the optics of the entire video did not look positive to me…
 
#699      
sorry if this was covered, but in this "hypothetical scenario" is Brad leaving on his own or would he get fired?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.