College Hoops Coaching Carousel

[bluemountain]

Yeah I honestly struggle to understand some of the negativity around BU, even as some who believes in and supports the highest of expectations for Illinois Basketball.

Maybe it’s a differential in terms of how much people care about the Big Ten and Big Ten titles?

Like, we gotta break our second weekend drought, for sure, but BU’s got one (and actually two) Big Ten titles in the bag plus a win of the deepest most competitive BTT maybe ever. That bought an ocean of goodwill and confidence in his ability to win big in my book.

If all you can see is Loyola I don’t think you’re viewing the whole picture, jmho.

When people say "Loyola," this is what they really mean or are referring to:

- an annoying habit of letting teams with inferior talent stay in the game longer than they should. (As an aside, Bielema is the polar opposite here - he has the ability to keep his teams in the game until the end, even if he has inferior talent)
- poor game planning and a seeming inability to adjust in game. It's not like we don't know PSU is going to isolate Pickett or that Loyola is going to run their players through multiple off the ball screens, we just don't seem to have the ability to even begin to counter it
- a lingering suspicion that at the end of close games we will tighten up and blow it somehow - whether it be via missed FT's or an inability to run a simple inbounds play or having the wrong guy handle the ball in a tight situation and make a dumb turnover or Mayer or Epps deciding to play hero ball

I don't want to pull the plug on the BU era; he has shown he can get talent, he has won here and he deserves a chance to show the Kofi era wasn't a fluke. But you can't ignore the other stuff and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[Umit9]

I think Underwood has earned the privilege of us overlooking his first two seasons, which were part of a successful full rebuild of the program. So let's take the teams that are most frequently cited as our biggest rivals. Since the 2019-2020 season (the first post-rebuild season) we are:
1-3 against Mizzou
3-3 against Purdue
4-3 against Indiana
5-2 against Iowa
6-0 against Wisconsin
6-0 against Michigan

That's 25-11 against our "rivals." (I refuse to include Northwestern, though we are 7-1 against them in that time so it would only help my case.) So, in short, we have fared reasonably well against all of our rivals except Mizzou. Now, that's a pretty big one for me as a product of the Metro East, but overall you are letting the disappointment that was this season cloud your view.

Is Underwood the long-term solution that will get us to the promised land? Can he do it without Kofi and/or Ayo? Who knows? But he has certainly earned more than one disappointing season (that still ended in the NCAA Tournament) before the fanbase turns on him.

Beat me to it @sacraig.

Record against rivals overall isn’t an issue on Underwood’s resume. Outside of Mizzou. Sure that’s maddening and disappointing in the moment. Hopefully he’ll figure that one out.

Go Illini

 

[ChiefGritty]

I think Underwood has earned the privilege of us overlooking his first two seasons, which were part of a successful full rebuild of the program. So let's take the teams that are most frequently cited as our biggest rivals. Since the 2019-2020 season (the first post-rebuild season) we are:
1-3 against Mizzou
3-3 against Purdue
4-3 against Indiana
5-2 against Iowa
6-0 against Wisconsin
6-0 against Michigan

That's 25-11 against our "rivals." (I refuse to include Northwestern, though we are 7-1 against them in that time so it would only help my case.) So, in short, we have fared reasonably well against all of our rivals except Mizzou. Now, that's a pretty big one for me as a product of the Metro East, but overall you are letting the disappointment that was this season cloud your view.

Is Underwood the long-term solution that will get us to the promised land? Can he do it without Kofi and/or Ayo? Who knows? But he has certainly earned more than one disappointing season (that still ended in the NCAA Tournament) before the fanbase turns on him.

Great post, I’d only add that I would include Northwestern because losing to them is unacceptable.

Us looking like we didn’t want to be there and laying down to Mizzou this year is BU’s lowest moment to date. We see more of that and my viewpoint will shift.

 

[illini510]

Will never understand this mentality. I absolutely want a coach that is winning and creating so much success that UK, KU, Duke, NC wants this person.

I want to prioritize winning vs finding a coach that will stay here for 10-15 years. Weber would have stayed here 30 years had we let him.

Win, have success, and if the coach gets poached by Duke or KU that means things have gone exceedingly well! If that's the case, then trust the AD that hired that great coach finds the next one.

My mentality is based on realism, not based on blinders. Maybe you need to take a look back at the entire 2010s to understand that elite coaches don't come to Illinois b/c they didn't want to deal with the politics that is Chicago recruiting. Maybe that isn't as much of an issue anymore with NIL and the transfer portal but Illinois never has been able to get elite level coaches into their program unless they were up and comers like Self or Krueger, who then bolted.

Why would you want that much instability and to essentially start over every 3 or 4 yrs? It's not like none of those guys brought us a national championship, did they? They had some more luck in the tournament but they weren't loyal to Illinois.

I want a loyal coach not a disloyal coach. Loyalty is a strong character trait that many people don't have.

 

[redwingillini11]

I think Underwood has earned the privilege of us overlooking his first two seasons, which were part of a successful full rebuild of the program. So let's take the teams that are most frequently cited as our biggest rivals. Since the 2019-2020 season (the first post-rebuild season) we are:
1-3 against Mizzou
3-3 against Purdue
4-3 against Indiana
5-2 against Iowa
6-0 against Wisconsin
6-0 against Michigan

That's 25-11 against our "rivals." (I refuse to include Northwestern, though we are 7-1 against them in that time so it would only help my case.) So, in short, we have fared reasonably well against all of our rivals except Mizzou. Now, that's a pretty big one for me as a product of the Metro East, but overall you are letting the disappointment that was this season cloud your view.

Is Underwood the long-term solution that will get us to the promised land? Can he do it without Kofi and/or Ayo? Who knows? But he has certainly earned more than one disappointing season (that still ended in the NCAA Tournament) before the fanbase turns on him.

Very fair assessment.

 

[skyIdub]

I refuse to believe it is anything more or less than simply getting BU a true QB PG that can run the team on the floor.
Maybe we had it in Skyy and lost it. Whatever.
He literally oversaw turning Trent into one.
A 5’8 dynamo just propelled KState into the E8.
Imagine our team this year with a playmaking leader that could command the teams attention when they tune out the coach.
It’s that simple.

 

[ptgrd23]

When people say "Loyola," this is what they really mean or are referring to:

- an annoying habit of letting teams with inferior talent stay in the game longer than they should. (As an aside, Bielema is the polar opposite here - he has the ability to keep his teams in the game until the end, even if he has inferior talent)

JMO- in non conference games under Brad we usually blow people out. Weber had nail biters vs. Eastern Illinois etc.

- poor game planning and a seeming inability to adjust in game. It's not like we don't know PSU is going to isolate Pickett or that Loyola is going to run their players through multiple off the ball screens, we just don't seem to have the ability to even begin to counter it

JMO- primarily a problem this season. Even this year we typically played better in 2nd half so adjustments are being made.

- a lingering suspicion that at the end of close games we will tighten up and blow it somehow - whether it be via missed FT's or an inability to run a simple inbounds play or having the wrong guy handle the ball in a tight situation and make a dumb turnover or Mayer or Epps deciding to play hero ball

JMO - problem this season. When we had Ayo, Kofi, even Andre there was no issue. Injuries and mid season quitters gave Brad very few guard options this year. With a deeper bench Brand can replace people who don't listen or execute. Exhibit 1: playing Ty late in game for defense and rebounding over upperclassmen.

I don't want to pull the plug on the BU era; he has shown he can get talent, he has won here and he deserves a chance to show the Kofi era wasn't a fluke. But you can't ignore the other stuff and pretend it doesn't exist.

JMO: Brad can improve and I think he will. Look how quick he ditched the switching defense and 5 out offense at the start of the b10 play. Maybe we miss Gentry more than OA and Chin.

I don't think he will make the same transfer portal mistakes. Keep in mind this was a very young /new team. We basically brought Coleman and RJ back (Luke was injured). Everybody else was new - MM, TSJ, Dain, Jayden, Sencire, Skyy, and Ty. If I told you last April we would make NCAA and be middle of B10 conference you would have taken it.

I trust Brad will adjust.

 

[AttentionDeficit]

I'm not buying this narrative that Josh is worried the well will dry up because some donor is pissed that his NIL guy quit the team or is unhappy with the coach. Donors get pissed and say they won't donate anymore all the time. The well is not dry. There are plenty of rich donors who want Illinois to succeed and are willing to pay to help.

I don't think Josh is 'worried' about the well drying up either, but a big part of his job is water management, and the more water the better! I would say that in your last sentence (emphasis mine) i would change "plenty" to "a finite number." That finite number may currently be plenty, but a lot of time goes into managing those relationships for a reason. They can be lost faster than they can be gained.

I certainly agree that there are rich donors who want Illinois to succeed and are willing to pay to help, but the last part is the key. The question is - Did paying Skyy Clark help Illinois succeed? I think that answer is obviously no. The money spent on Skyy was a total loss for whomever spent it, and i'm not sure there are any donors who wouldn't be disappointed with that.

 

[AttentionDeficit]

There's a name i haven't heard in forever. I miss the old crew.

Hoping Orange Fever is still fighting the good fight somewhere too (PNW if I recall).

May he be taking the pie while the pie is passing!

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

Where in Illinois is SM's wife from? thought I saw that posted a few days ago.

Sean & Amy have been together since sophomore year of high school … She’s from PA …

 

[BBIQ]

Nice post bro...............I said yesterday that I was completely blindsided by the talk about BU sniffing around other HC jobs as I never knew he had ever done that .......

All I've heard from BU is this is his dream job and we have the best fans in the country........With the upgrades to Ubben , following the major upgrade to SFC , I felt JW was doing everything to make our facilities among the best in the nation ....

Then came the extensions to BU and the increase in the AC pool to replace the 3 AC's we lost .............It got to where , IMHO , anything that BU wanted , either JW got or tried to get.......Not being an insider I depend on Indy , 0440 , Lville and DBHeadband for any info regarding the behind the scene's going's on with the Illini....

Yesterday's thread just sprouted wings and was flying at breakneck speed for the duration of the day.........Post after post of so and so going there and what ramifications that would have on the Illini.......The thing that got my attention was the notion that BU has sniffed around other jobs EVERY year since he's been here......I get the nature of the job as I had other companies calling me and asking if I was happy where I was at ........But , I never inquired first about another job and that has me in a quandry about BU..

I kinda feel betrayed by that , or at least mislead by his action of sniffing around privately while profoundly spewing superlatives about UI and Illini Nation , talking about how tight he was with JW and now what he has said might not be an accurate picture of what is really going on........I have known other managers in my field years ago just tell me they needed another challenge as they had become stagnant in their current job performance.......Ok , that's cool .....Just don't go so overboard with the praise unless it is truly heartfelt.............JUST BE HONEST is all I ask.......And i feel our good sources were being brutally honest with their info they passed on to all of us yesterday.....I would trust all 4 of them completely without reservation in their info........

Bottom line to me is we are in for an exciting period going forth and when the music ends , I hope we have the right coach to lead us to the second weekend in the dance and even further,,,,,,JMHO ...It really really really is ................

LETS GO ILLINI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hyperbole is BU's middle name.

 

[anflessner]

And he clearly does not want to hire Terry … So selling to your boosters that we swung for the fences and missed but got the winningest coach in the Big Ten last 4 years … Not a hard sell … Especially considering they lost to us this year …

Not a hard sell? I don't believe that. The Big Ten has a national stench of a reputation right now. I think Underwood would be a very hard sell to Texas fans. Most people on this message board don't even seem to want him here. Plus take the national reaction of Terry being thrown overboard for someone who has never gone as far in the tournament as Terry has this year. That is why IMO, Underwood to Texas never happens.

 

[GoodePodzMelendez]

I thought two years ago it was confusing and unpredictable as we lost the nearly the entire coaching staff but here we are with our top three insiders, which I have huge respect for, saying different things. I hope in the next few weeks we get clarity. If we lose Chester to a HC gig or we have Brad or not, I know that JW will make the right call.

 

[sacraig]

My mentality is based on realism, not based on blinders. Maybe you need to take a look back at the entire 2010s to understand that elite coaches don't come to Illinois b/c they didn't want to deal with the politics that is Chicago recruiting. Maybe that isn't as much of an issue anymore with NIL and the transfer portal but Illinois never has been able to get elite level coaches into their program unless they were up and comers like Self or Krueger, who then bolted.

Why would you want that much instability and to essentially start over every 3 or 4 yrs? It's not like none of those guys brought us a national championship, did they? They had some more luck in the tournament but they weren't loyal to Illinois.

I want a loyal coach not a disloyal coach. Loyalty is a strong character trait that many people don't have.

What? So they instead go to other schools and deal with Chicago recruiting anyway? This is an absolutely nonsensical take. Self was here and left for Kansas and continued recruiting Chicago (successfully). Shoot, even Weber kept recruiting Chicago after he was canned (albeit not the 5 star kids).

Elite coaches didn't come here in that window you cite because we didn't have an opening (Weber was here a while) or they didn't want to work for a dumpster fire AD (Thomas) or our program had already sunk so low that they didn't want to do a full rebuild post-Groce. None of those things are true now IF our job would open up.

I want a great coach. Period. And if that coach is good enough to be entertaining offers from blue bloods after succeeding here, I trust our current AD to make all reasonable effort to retain said coach.

 

[ptgrd23]

I am really excited about seeing what our underclassman core can do next year

C- Dain and Brandon L
PF - Ty and Amari
SF - RJ and Luke
G - Sencire, Nico, Jayden, DSG

Plus whatever transfer portal or late HS signees we get. I hope Brad avoids seniors looking to get to NBA and sticks with underclassman that did not work out at their first school like Dain and Jacob G. Maybe JC like Andre Feliz.

 

[WyattEarp]

Will never understand this mentality. I absolutely want a coach that is winning and creating so much success that UK, KU, Duke, NC wants this person.

I want to prioritize winning vs finding a coach that will stay here for 10-15 years. Weber would have stayed here 30 years had we let him.

Win, have success, and if the coach gets poached by Duke or KU that means things have gone exceedingly well! If that's the case, then trust the AD that hired that great coach finds the next one.

I’m really selfish; I guess. Because I kinda want the best of both worlds. I like the happy-medium option(s) a Dana Altmana-type, a Matt Painter-type, a Thad Matta(back in the day)type…

The kinda guys that get you 20 wins every year, finish top half of conference 9 out of 10 years…and OCCASIONALLY get S16 or an E8. But he’s ALWAYS a formidable threat…even on down years…(I basically described Brad except for the post season stuff)

*Obviously, getting the top tier signals your program is uptown…and that is worth something.

AND It seems like you sorta need the hired-gun, top tier guys to get you to where you want to go. (More often than not)

The only exception is getting lucky with an up an comer…But if you’re lucky enough to have or develop a Brad Stevens, before he’s Brad Stevens you ain’t gonna have him long…

My only real concern is that the
hired guns have to work twice as fast…because they’re there half as long. Lol
And usually they can, because they’re damn good. But unless they’re already at a blue blood…which we ain’t…you’re looking over your shoulder way more with a Pitino
than an Altman. Altman/Matta/Painter are more than good enough for me.

 

[SeattleSlim]

sounds similar as a younger Harry Caray with the Cardinals and owners daughter/Daughter in law

Also rumor

Holy cow!

 

[NarrowJ]

Most people on this message board don't even seem to want him here.

I do not think that is true. I just think that the minority here is especially loud.

 

[PizzaHutGM]

Brad went out and tried to completely rebuild a team in 1 season. He made a couple mistakes in that process and probably wishes he could have those back.
1. Clark given his history probably shouldn't of gotten any guarantees and would of been better off with a veteran guard to help this team get around.
2. Mayer has always been a role guy and probably shouldn't of gotten a much bigger role. He stays a role guy maybe season turns out better but unfortunately there wasn't anyone else to take that role.
If BU comes back I would welcome him back with no questions asked. He has earned that and just hope he has learned from the mistakes this year when building the team during a rebuild

 

[Roundball Sage]

Or finally, this has been Much Ado About Nothing

“There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.”
– Donald Rumsfeld

Not sure where this Rumsfield guy coached (ahem)... but he does have a point here.

In the current speculation about the future of the Illini program... There are things we know. There are things we know we don’t know. And then there are things we don’t know that we don’t know.

Beyond that... I just don’t know.

 

[BlueLeader]

I hope Brad avoids seniors looking to get to NBA and sticks with underclassman that did not work out at their first school

Upper classmen transfers do not go well with the toughened culture he is trying to work into the program. Plus, the young guys he is working into the system and buying into the culture need that playing time and not get recruited (transferred) over by senior Madonnas.

Give me Trent Fraziers and play them.

 

[spotter]

So...

Possible twists in As the Carousel Turns

Terry is interviewing for other jobs. Already told he won't be hired and Texas opens up.
KSU keeps winning and Tang strikes while the iron is hot.
Cal gets the Texas job and opens up UK.
Self retires and opens up KU.
Sampson moves up to larger conference or goes to work for Verizon.
Satan does something even Auburn can't stomach.
Arkansas or Alabama open up if Musselman or Oates move on.
Illini0440 or Tyler move on to wherever Brad ends up.
Previous poster's meteor finally hits and opens up an unexpected job
Or finally, this has been Much Ado About Nothing

Current status following this carousel.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Does JW ever reach out to players and families directly, or is that seen as bad form due to going around the coach?

If your boss ever went over your head, called your clients and took liberties, would you be ok with that? That wouldn't only be bad form, it would probably eliminate 99% of any potential applicants during his tenure.

 

[spotter]

Not saying you're wrong, but I think there could be other reasons for the clear change in demeanor.

My interpretation has been that this was just a very challenging season to navigate, as a coach, but especially as the kind of coach BU is. With the lack of a clear alpha player, overall youth and inexperience of the team, obvious personality/culture issues, Skyy's underwhelming play as starting PG (and subsequent departure), untimely injuries, players having extended slumps, etc...BU is no idiot, and the writing was on the wall that this team was just not going to pan out. I think it's been said by a few, in different ways, but I get the impression nobody was happier to see this season end than Brad.

I also wonder if somebody got into his ear about the yelling and going nuclear, at some point...or he realized on his own that he needed to chill out a bit. There could be some truth to the notion that's been bandied around about today's average player simply not responding well to that style of coaching, if not outright rejecting it. Player egos are well fed in the era of social media, NIL, the transfer portal, etc. Could be that BU has been (perhaps begrudgingly) trying to change his tune a bit, in an attempt to adapt to this new reality.

If my FIL yells at you/busts on you, that show you he loves you and cares about you.
If he's polite/quiet/proper, it shows he doesn't have the time of day for you.

I wonder if BU emotionally hit the eject button on this team or on some of his players.

 

[Roundball Sage]

The domino to watch is K State …

OK. If there is some scenario where Coach Underwood eventually ends up at Kansas State... I guess that makes the Illini a Stepping Stone to BOTH KANSAS UNIVERSITIES NOW!?

Yikes...