Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[FormerIllini]

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I feel like we are giving too much flexibility/power to the athletes (and I’m speaking from the mindset of a former d1 athlete). With the unlimited visits, transfer portal, and NIL schools have their hands tied. Don’t know that there is a good answer to all of this though.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I feel like we are giving too much flexibility/power to the athletes (and I’m speaking from the mindset of a former d1 athlete). With the unlimited visits, transfer portal, and NIL schools have their hands tied. Don’t know that there is a good answer to all of this though.

The cornerstone I always come back to is that 100% of the dollars in the system come, one way or another, from the passion of the fans.

This is a spectacle, and a spectator pastime, that people have loved and cared about for generations. Preserving and strengthening that should be front of mind in any discussion of how to best structure things going forward.

It got so popular and thus so financially productive that compensating the labor with just a scholarship was an equilibrium that couldn't hold. That's ultimately why we are where we are.

 

[Bucktown]

Lieb potential landing spot … Maybe a 1 for 1 swap …

Also maybe Illinois State … Know he was going to visit there …

Would the quality of the education would be a factor for Lieb? Is he transferring as a grad student with two years of eligibility?

 

[IMPE Legend]

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I feel like we are giving too much flexibility/power to the athletes (and I’m speaking from the mindset of a former d1 athlete). With the unlimited visits, transfer portal, and NIL schools have their hands tied. Don’t know that there is a good answer to all of this though.

I think getting rid of immediate transfers, and all waivers(except for maybe coach firings) is the answer. Everyone has to sit out a year. End of story. Make all the money you want. Go where you want. But this is what will have to happen to stop the madness of 1000+ transfers every year. It doesn't take kids choice away or limit their ability to make that NIL money...it just places consequences on those choices that the current system lacks. Kind of the student equivalent of these huge buyouts coaches have to pay. Its not realistic, or appropriate, to expect million dollar plus buyouts for players. But at this point they have no negative consequence of transferring so sitting out provides that, and provides stability to the sport as they are spiraling into chaos.

 

[GoodePodzMelendez]

We still are a PG short. Have we recruited over Harris through the portal? Harmon and whoever we get to play PG along with DGL, Domask, Goode and Rodgers will take minutes from Harris. Brad is not a 10-11 players a game guy and we will have 13 guys who want minutes. If TJ comes back, we will be full at the guard spot.

 

[FinallyMadeAnAccount]

We still are a PG short. Have we recruited over Harris through the portal? Harmon and whoever we get to play PG along with DGL, Domask, Goode and Rodgers will take minutes from Harris. Brad is not a 10-11 players a game guy and we will have 13 guys who want minutes. If TJ comes back, we will be full at the guard spot.

His offense is essentially non-existent and he can't shoot. As much as I like him, I'm okay with this

 

[IlliniKat91]

I think getting rid of immediate transfers, and all waivers(except for maybe coach firings) is the answer. Everyone has to sit out a year. End of story. Make all the money you want. Go where you want. But this is what will have to happen to stop the madness of 1000+ transfers every year. It doesn't take kids choice away or limit their ability to make that NIL money...it just places consequences on those choices that the current system lacks. Kind of the student equivalent of these huge buyouts coaches have to pay. Its not realistic, or appropriate, to expect million dollar plus buyouts for players. But at this point they have no negative consequence of transferring so sitting out provides that, and provides stability to the sport as they are spiraling into chaos.

No coach is paying their own buyout. The booster that wanted them most at their new school is.

I think the one transfer is fine. What needs to happen is tightening the second transfer rule. Make kids and their handlers think twice before jumping every year.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I'll call him RayJ, but you can call him J. Or you can call him Ray.

Big generational split in what celebrity comes to mind when you hear "RayJ"

 

[GoodePodzMelendez]

His offense is essentially non-existent and he can't shoot. As much as I like him, I'm okay with this

I remember Gill and Head not being great shooters their freshman year ands improved by the time they were juniors. I like Harris as well but you are right though. Unless he improves his shooting and FT percentage, he might not get clock which is unfortunate as he is a defensive asset.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I'm sort of weirdly optimistic about Harris' future as a shooter, because what he needs is to just totally raze everything about his shooting stroke and rebuild from scratch. So that at least gives you a clean slate to start with.

How his high school coach let him shoot a free throw like that I'll never know.

 

[sacraig]

The cornerstone I always come back to is that 100% of the dollars in the system come, one way or another, from the passion of the fans.

This is a spectacle, and a spectator pastime, that people have loved and cared about for generations. Preserving and strengthening that should be front of mind in any discussion of how to best structure things going forward.

It got so popular and thus so financially productive that compensating the labor with just a scholarship was an equilibrium that couldn't hold. That's ultimately why we are where we are.

If we are now using the language of dynamical systems...

I agree, and I think the situation we find ourselves in now is one where we've overshot the more stable equilibrium and will see the system move back toward something more sustainable.

I think of it like a mass-spring-damper system. Previously it was held in an unstable position with the spring stretched by NCAA rules. When the NIL dam broke, it moved toward a more stable situation but overshot. Donors' wishes to not dump money down the drain will act as damping and cause.the system to tend toward a more stable equilibrium, but it's going to take some time.

(Sorry, I'm about to go teach a class that involves mass-spring-damper systems.)

 

[WhiteHorseWings]

Big generational split in what celebrity comes to mind when you hear "RayJ"

Is one side of the split no one? Because that’s the side I’m on

 

[FloridaMan]

The cornerstone I always come back to is that 100% of the dollars in the system come, one way or another, from the passion of the fans.

This is a spectacle, and a spectator pastime, that people have loved and cared about for generations. Preserving and strengthening that should be front of mind in any discussion of how to best structure things going forward.

It got so popular and thus so financially productive that compensating the labor with just a scholarship was an equilibrium that couldn't hold. That's ultimately why we are where we are.

I feel that the pendulum has swung too far. I agree, the athletes deserve a slice of the considerable pie that has been built in large part from their efforts. But you cannot allow unlimited transfers because we now have a situation in which fan loyalty is being eroded/eliminated. The golden goose is being strangled. I feel the best solution is to go back to a sit out year for a transfer other than those for limited exceptions such as defined, demonstrated player hardship/family situations, coaching changes, maybe a few limited others. The current wild west environment, in my opinion, kills fan passion and will ultimately dry up the dollars available in the system. Just my two cents.

 

[InDaAZ]

If we are now using the language of dynamical systems...

I agree, and I think the situation we find ourselves in now is one where we've overshot the more stable equilibrium and will see the system move back toward something more sustainable.

I think of it like a mass-spring-damper system. Previously it was held in an unstable position with the spring stretched by NCAA rules. When the NIL dam broke, it moved toward a more stable situation but overshot. Donors' wishes to not dump money down the drain will act as damping and cause.the system to tend toward a more stable equilibrium, but it's going to take some time.

(Sorry, I'm about to go teach a class that involves mass-spring-damper systems.)

 

[ChiefGritty]

I feel that the pendulum has swung too far. I agree, the athletes deserve a slice of the considerable pie that has been built in large part from their efforts. But you cannot allow unlimited transfers because we now have a situation in which fan loyalty is being eroded/eliminated. The golden goose is being strangled. I feel the best solution is to go back to a sit out year for a transfer other than those for limited exceptions such as defined, demonstrated player hardship/family situations, coaching changes, maybe a few limited others. The current wild west environment, in my opinion, kills fan passion and will ultimately dry up the dollars available in the system. Just my two cents.

Here's the thing about the exceptions: sitting out for a year isn't a punishment. You're on full scholarship, you're free to pursue NIL opportunities, etc.

It's a disincentive to player movement. Call it what it is.

The good news about players getting paid is that when you allow them the benefits of free adults, you can subject them to rules as free adults.

 

[FloridaMan]

Here's the thing about the exceptions: sitting out for a year isn't a punishment. You're on full scholarship, you're free to pursue NIL opportunities, etc.

It's a disincentive to player movement. Call it what it is.

The good news about players getting paid is that when you allow them the benefits of free adults, you can subject them to rules like free adults.

Fair point. It delays a player from showcasing his talents and turning professional for a year. That's at least some disincentive to simply transfer to shop for a better package somewhere else. Maybe allow only 50% NIL collection during the sit out year? There are probably other stipulations that could be put in place. I don't know. Something has to change in my opinion because as a fan, right now my passion and give a damn about college basketball is seriously on the downswing, and I know I'm not the only one. Sooner or later there comes a point when the dollars start to go away along with TV deals, ticket sales, etc, etc. That's where the money is coming from as you said.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

For everyone hoping the current NIL system will become more regulated and transfers years cut back to just one or even none, you’re heading in the wrong direction. If Loren Tate (via Brad) is correct, there’s already legal challenges in the works regarding limited transfers. And while I’m no lawyer, it’s become pretty obvious through recent court cases that the student athletes will win these cases… and the NCAA has likely known that for awhile. Perhaps they’ve known it for decades and we’re hoping no one would ever take them to court.

Once that dam has burst, the only way the NCAA could ever conceivably regulate transfers is to make them employees. And I think they’ll be more than happy to let third parties pay the athletes and let them roam year to year than put them on the payroll.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Something has to change in my opinion because as a fan, right now my passion and give a damn about college basketball is seriously on the downswing, and I know I'm not the only one. Sooner or later there comes a point when the dollars start to go away along with TV deals, ticket sales, etc, etc. That's where the money is coming from as you said.

Right, exactly.

The last couple months feel like a wake-up call, IMO. And the lowest TV ratings of all time for an NCAA Tournament Final are a part of that.

 

[alexander58]

If we are now using the language of dynamical systems...

I agree, and I think the situation we find ourselves in now is one where we've overshot the more stable equilibrium and will see the system move back toward something more sustainable.

I think of it like a mass-spring-damper system. Previously it was held in an unstable position with the spring stretched by NCAA rules. When the NIL dam broke, it moved toward a more stable situation but overshot. Donors' wishes to not dump money down the drain will act as damping and cause.the system to tend toward a more stable equilibrium, but it's going to take some time.

(Sorry, I'm about to go teach a class that involves mass-spring-damper systems.)

You think way too rationally. Are you sure you’re an Illini fan?

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

I can't find it now, but I think in a previous version of this thread that some poster said the "revenue-producing programs" would need a sort of GM to handle NIL, and this prompted another poster to say that there are only like two programs that turn a profit. That is definitely not true, from my research into profits by program:

1. Kentucky: $56.0 million in revenue, $31.2 million in profit
2. Louisville: 53.6M revenue, 29.2M profit
3. Indiana: 37.5M revenue, 17.1M profit
4. Duke: 35.4M revenue, 14.6M profit
5. Kansas: 34.1M revenue, 18.7M profit
6. Syracuse: 31.9M revenue, 17.6M profit
7. Ohio State: 30.1M revenue, 9.6M profit
8. North Carolina: 29.9M revenue, 17.5M profit
9. Michigan State: 28.5M revenue, 9.3M profit
10. Illinois: 27.6M revenue, 12.9M profit
11. UCLA: 26.3M revenue, 16.4M profit
12. Wisconsin: 25.3M revenue, 14.5M profit
13. Arkansas: 24.7M revenue, 13.9M profit
14. Michigan: 24.1M revenue, 11.3M profit
15. Arizona: 23.9M revenue, 13.0M profit
16. Maryland: 22.5M revenue, 10.4M profit
17. Marquette: 20.3M revenue, 7.3M profit
18. Minnesota: 19.7M revenue, 9.8M profit
19. Alabama: 19.3M revenue, 4.9M profit
20. Texas: 18.7M revenue, 1.0M profit

Quite a few basketball programs - by themselves - provide their athletic departments with several million in profit.

 

[pruman91]

I can't find it now, but I think in a previous version of this thread that some poster said the "revenue-producing programs" would need a sort of GM to handle NIL, and this prompted another poster to say that there are only like two programs that turn a profit. That is definitely not true, from my research into profits by program:

1. Kentucky: $56.0 million in revenue, $31.2 million in profit
2. Louisville: 53.6M revenue, 29.2M profit
3. Indiana: 37.5M revenue, 17.1M profit
4. Duke: 35.4M revenue, 14.6M profit
5. Kansas: 34.1M revenue, 18.7M profit
6. Syracuse: 31.9M revenue, 17.6M profit
7. Ohio State: 30.1M revenue, 9.6M profit
8. North Carolina: 29.9M revenue, 17.5M profit
9. Michigan State: 28.5M revenue, 9.3M profit
10. Illinois: 27.6M revenue, 12.9M profit
11. UCLA: 26.3M revenue, 16.4M profit
12. Wisconsin: 25.3M revenue, 14.5M profit
13. Arkansas: 24.7M revenue, 13.9M profit
14. Michigan: 24.1M revenue, 11.3M profit
15. Arizona: 23.9M revenue, 13.0M profit
16. Maryland: 22.5M revenue, 10.4M profit
17. Marquette: 20.3M revenue, 7.3M profit
18. Minnesota: 19.7M revenue, 9.8M profit
19. Alabama: 19.3M revenue, 4.9M profit
20. Texas: 18.7M revenue, 1.0M profit

Quite a few basketball programs - by themselves - provide their athletic departments with several million in profit.

I took it as only 2 revenue profit making programs per school , like MBB and FB being the only ones making a profit .....

But , I've been wrong before ............jmho

 

[Travis1173]

So, interesting domino in the recruiting game….Mikey Williams got arrested last night in San Diego on 5 charges of assault with a deadly weapon. Probably not great for his sponsorship dollars or for his commitment to Memphis.

 

[FrankNitty30]

The cornerstone I always come back to is that 100% of the dollars in the system come, one way or another, from the passion of the fans.

This is a spectacle, and a spectator pastime, that people have loved and cared about for generations. Preserving and strengthening that should be front of mind in any discussion of how to best structure things going forward.

It got so popular and thus so financially productive that compensating the labor with just a scholarship was an equilibrium that couldn't hold. That's ultimately why we are where we are.

This!! Collectives that are subsidized through fans choosing to “invest” in their passion for the school, a certain team, etc is the long term sustainability a collective will need. To be honest, big time donors need to stay with building projects and should they choose to also give to the collective, great.

But that money will disappear someday. The next generation of corporate money may have gone to a different school. Then what? Find new avenues? Sure. But the collectives that can rally the fan base, will ultimately rise to the top.

I agree with Gritty (not always, for sure ) UK, KU, Et al, will rule this space if other schools don’t adapt. At least in the area of college basketball, since we are in this thread, if football think of those passionate fan bases.

I think peopl think of “collectives” As a place to “collect” money. That is the absolute wrong way to look at it. A Collective is an entity that everyone can give to “collectively.” Everyone!!

I live in this space, though not at U of I (man, I wish.) and getting the base is crucial.

Use your big donors to get your 3-4 studs in basketball. But a strong collective will have money from the masses that lifts player 5-13 above where they would be compensated at another college.

Shoot we could raise a SIGNIFICANT amount of money just off this board. I believe that…. To quote @pruman91 …. I really, really do.

 

[Qdog59]

Y

I remember Gill and Head not being great shooters their freshman year ands improved by the time they were juniors. I like Harris as well but you are right though. Unless he improves his shooting and FT percentage, he might not get clock which is unfortunate as he is a defensive asset.

You people are talking crazy!!! He will always get his playing time. Almost every time he enters the game he single handedly changes the complexion of the game. We have nobody else on this team who effects the game like him

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

So, interesting domino in the recruiting game….Mikey Williams got arrested last night in San Diego on 5 charges of assault with a deadly weapon. Probably not great for his sponsorship dollars or for his commitment to Memphis.

Eh… it’s Tennessee. That’ll probably get him more ad dollars. 🫤