St Louis Cardinals 2023

[pruman91]

TON breaks up the no-hitter.............woo-hoo , we got our first hit in the bottom of the fifth......

PDJ with a hit to right field .......woo-hoo...............

Knizner up at bat..................Knizner grounds out , gets his FIRST RBI this season.......Angels up 4-1........

 

[jmwillini]

Firing line:
Marmol
Girsch
Marmol's replacement
Girsch's replacement, wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[jmwillini]

In college sports, an AD gets at BEST, what, 2 firings of his coaching hires? How many does a MLB GM/POBO get? Mo hired/fired Matheny/Schildt and barring a miracle, soon to be #3 Marmol.

 

[pruman91]

Verhagen with a 2 out walk , leads to a run for the Angels .....now 5-1 Angels.......

I doubt Mo does anything before the All Star break as far as letting Marmol go............

 

[jmwillini]

I agree, unless May is another April. 20-38....

 

[pruman91]

Cardinals have 2 on with nobody out trailing 5-1 and Arenado swings at the first pitch grounding into a DP.......Arenado is great , no doubt , but what ever happened to make a new relief pitcher throw a strike before you swing the bat.....That's old school baseball from what I have seen in the past and how I learned the game.........

 

[Ryllini]

Cardinals have 2 on with nobody out trailing 5-1 and Arenado swings at the first pitch grounding into a DP.......Arenado is great , no doubt , but what ever happened to make a new relief pitcher throw a strike before you swing the bat.....That's old school baseball from what I have seen in the past and how I learned the game.........

Pressing...all of them

 

[viking6888]

Jaden Schwartz and Vince Dunn are on ESPN right now

 

[GILL-INOIS]

True, but Edman has much more value now as a trade chip than this time next season. He's got 2 years of control after this season. If we're not competing this season a big chunk of his value is lost on us. If we're not competing next season then that effect is further compounded. If we're sellers, and don't want to give up either of our two big stars, Edman is probably the most valuable trade chip we could be willing to move (obviously I don't think we'd move guys with tons of team control like Donovan, Gorman, etc.). With DeJong moving on after this season we probably need to sign a middle infielder anyway. I think a move worth considering would be to trade Edman while value is still high and sign someone who can hold down the position until Winn is ready.

Edman's trade value peaks only so high. He plays multiple positions well, hits well, etc but doesn't do anything great consistently.

My take was more of we don't have a SS without Edman unless they would ride out DeJong this season and bring Winn up. Donovan can play 2B, 1B, 3B, OF and SS. Not saying he is bad but his least valuable position of contribution so far is SS. He is not an everyday guy I want to see anywhere near SS.

Two ways we see Winn up this season

1. Trade.......Either Edman or if DeJong keeps hitting trade him away for a prospect

2. Keep playing like we are and out of playoff contention later in the season


Ton of media say we have 5 OFs that can play everyday. That is true just none of them are consistent. I look for the Cardinals to move an outfielder first. Ton of rumors that the Cardinals would be after injured pitchers Glasnow from Tampa Bay or Severino from Yankees. Both should be on rehab assignments soon and under the radar guys to keep an eye on.

 

[pruman91]

Jaden Schwartz and Vince Dunn are on ESPN right now

I'm gonna watch the cardinals Zuniga make his MLB debut and see how fast he really is.....

Ohtani tomorrow for the Angels is must see TV for me......

 

[IlliniFaninHoosierLand]

This is first season in MLB history that Cardinals and Yankees were both in sole possession of last place in their divisions on May 1. Only time it ever happened before divisional play, the Yankees weren't known as the Yankees at that point.

 

[viking6888]

Schwartz jUst scored!

 

[pruman91]

Very impressive inning for Zuniga......his FB and breaking ball looks like the same form coming out of his hand ....K'ed Trout on a pitch JUST a little outside......lol

 

[DeonThomas]

To get to 88 wins, a reasonable total to be in chase for division or possibly final wild card, they have to go 78-55. Short of a big shakeup, I don't see it.

I was 5 when they won in 64. Saw my first game at Busch a couple years later. This is reminding me of the 70's and post Gussie years when AB didn't care about the team. Not used to feeling like the season may be over by the 1st of May.

Somebody talk me off the ledge, lol.

The 1970's. My favorite Cardinal decade, personally........but would love to see it continue for two decades this time around.

 

[pruman91]

The 1970's. My favorite Cardinal decade, personally........but would love to see it continue for two decades this time around.

last 100 +++ years of WS championships ...............

Cardinals have 11.......

cubbies have 1 ??.......................but they are so lovable in their futility......................dude , I avoid the cubs thread out of respect for their fans here ....why don't you do the same ???

 

[jmwillini]

The 1970's. My favorite Cardinal decade, personally........but would love to see it continue for two decades this time around.

And your team still had a worse record...

 

[the juiceman cometh]

Edman's trade value peaks only so high. He plays multiple positions well, hits well, etc but doesn't do anything great consistently.

My take was more of we don't have a SS without Edman unless they would ride out DeJong this season and bring Winn up. Donovan can play 2B, 1B, 3B, OF and SS. Not saying he is bad but his least valuable position of contribution so far is SS. He is not an everyday guy I want to see anywhere near SS.

Two ways we see Winn up this season

1. Trade.......Either Edman or if DeJong keeps hitting trade him away for a prospect

2. Keep playing like we are and out of playoff contention later in the season


Ton of media say we have 5 OFs that can play everyday. That is true just none of them are consistent. I look for the Cardinals to move an outfielder first. Ton of rumors that the Cardinals would be after injured pitchers Glasnow from Tampa Bay or Severino from Yankees. Both should be on rehab assignments soon and under the radar guys to keep an eye on.

I hear ya, but if we're selling it doesn't really matter what we do at SS this season. Play Motter every day if you need to. The whole point of selling is that you know you're not making the playoffs this season so you're selling present assets for future assets.

I also think we'll move OF, but two things to consider. All of our OF besides TON have lots of team control left. So if they have value, it's value we may want to keep, or to package for a bigger name when we are ready to compete. I think we may well move TON but we'll be selling low unless he gets things going between now and the deadline, so it's probably not going to be a huge return. If we want to bring in a nice prospect haul TON and half season rentals on Monty and Flaherty aren't going to be enough.

 

[GILL-INOIS]

I hear ya, but if we're selling it doesn't really matter what we do at SS this season. Play Motter every day if you need to. The whole point of selling is that you know you're not making the playoffs this season so you're selling present assets for future assets.

I also think we'll move OF, but two things to consider. All of our OF besides TON have lots of team control left. So if they have value, it's value we may want to keep, or to package for a bigger name when we are ready to compete. I think we may well move TON but we'll be selling low unless he gets things going between now and the deadline, so it's probably not going to be a huge return. If we want to bring in a nice prospect haul TON and half season rentals on Monty and Flaherty aren't going to be enough.

Selling doesn't always mean we are selling for future years as well.

Motter could fill in at SS on last resort issue. He hasn't played SS at the MLB level in like 5-6 seasons. He is an antique now for SS.lol

That is why TON is mentioned on majority of the so called "trade rumors" and I have no problem with that. His value could be higher, same it could be lower. My guess if we trade TON it won't be for prospects at all. It will be an under the radar pitcher or mid 20s pitcher say from the Marlins who have experience and could thrive in a different environment. Likely be TON and a prospect if that happens.

Ton of our nucleus is still real young. Stays that way for awhile especially if you add in babies OF Walker and SS/2B Winn. Just like our OF with extra bodies the infield is the same way. It would be a huge plus if Gorman could develop into a 2B as that would open up avenues for other players.

No clue what the Cards will end up trading later on but here is my logic with the stuff I mentioned above. It could be a different OF like Carlson, but say the Cards would move TON. Still have Nootbaar, Carlson and Walker. Throw in Yepez has played OF/DH in minors this season and Donovan can fill in infield/OF at any time. I don't see much changing with this team if the Cardinals move one outfielder. Longer shot.....if the Cardinals believe Yepez/Donovan/Burleson should be everyday guys than maybe more than one get traded or one of them is part of a random deal.


I truly believe Mozeliak thought Carlson was a Juan Soto talent of a player and held him up on a pedestal at one time. Not greedy, glad if Carlson can grow into half of that talent.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

That is why TON is mentioned on majority of the so called "trade rumors" and I have no problem with that. His value could be higher, same it could be lower. My guess if we trade TON it won't be for prospects at all. It will be an under the radar pitcher or mid 20s pitcher say from the Marlins who have experience and could thrive in a different environment. Likely be TON and a prospect if that happens.

The kind of MLB pitcher you're going to get with TON as the centerpiece is the type of pitcher that got us into this mess in the first place. We need an ace or, barring that, a prospect who could turn into an ace (which may also mean a prospect who can be flipped for an ace at the 2024 trade deadline if things are looking better at that time).

The Marlins pitcher we could maaaaaybe get for TON is Luzardo. He's shown promise but he's had a lot of injury issues and had an ERA of 6.61 in 2021. The whole proposition gives me strong Matz vibes.

 

[GILL-INOIS]

The kind of MLB pitcher you're going to get with TON as the centerpiece is the type of pitcher that got us into this mess in the first place. We need an ace or, barring that, a prospect who could turn into an ace (which may also mean a prospect who can be flipped for an ace at the 2024 trade deadline if things are looking better at that time).

The Marlins pitcher we could maaaaaybe get for TON is Luzardo. He's shown promise but he's had a lot of injury issues and had an ERA of 6.61 in 2021. The whole proposition gives me strong Matz vibes.

Of course we need an ace

Trading TON and possibly prospect isn't netting you an ace

Luzardo will be 26 at the end of the season. He also went 4-7 last season with a 3.32 ERA. Stats can be misleading whichever way a person wants to turn them. I never said they would trade for this guy or a certain player on the Marlins. Cardinals will be looking for future starting pitching unless they would re-sign Montgomery or Flaherty.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

Of course we need an ace

Trading TON and possibly prospect isn't netting you an ace

Luzardo will be 26 at the end of the season. He also went 4-7 last season with a 3.32 ERA. Stats can be misleading whichever way a person wants to turn them. I never said they would trade for this guy or a certain player on the Marlins. Cardinals will be looking for future starting pitching unless they would re-sign Montgomery or Flaherty.

You mentioned the Marlins specifically, and it's Luzardo by process of elimination. Marlins aren't parting with Alcantara or Cabrera, at least not for TON and a prospect, unless that prospect is Walker or Winn. And it's not misleading to say Luzardo has major question marks. Yes, he was good last season when he was healthy and yes he's been good this season. But he still only pitched 100 innings last season. And he's not that far removed from some really bad 2021 numbers. It really is similar to Matz, is my point, that's all. Matz also had a good year with Toronto, after a mixed track record and a bad 2020 with the Mets. Matz also struggled to pitch consistent innings, though he at least hit 150 a few times, which Luzardo has never done. Since the Cardinals won't spend on free agent pitching, trade is going to be the most realistic shot at getting an ace, and I'm not sure Luzardo is the basket I'd put my eggs in.

 

[pruman91]

Cardinals prospect Masyn Winn continues productive stretch at plate with three-hit game

With a three-for-five game against Jacksonville, Winn boosted his average to .240 and OPS to .634.

www.stltoday.com

 

[Se Il Illini]

This team is a hot mess right now. Go back 2 years, the Cardinals were dead in the water until they had historic run of something like 16 wins in a row. But an early exit from the playoffs. In the year of nostalgia of 2022, the Cardinals exited early from the playoffs. Pitching is a problem. There has been no set lineup. There is a logjam of players both in the outfield and middle infield. Marmol will be the fall guy.

 

[pruman91]

This team is a hot mess right now. Go back 2 years, the Cardinals were dead in the water until they had historic run of something like 16 wins in a row. But an early exit from the playoffs. In the year of nostalgia of 2022, the Cardinals exited early from the playoffs. Pitching is a problem. There has been no set lineup. There is a logjam of players both in the outfield and middle infield. Marmol will be the fall guy.

 

[NEIlliniFan]