socalini
- So Cali
DeWitt is certainly a big part of the problem and should be chased out of town by someone who is more flexible in reinvesting profits into future success.
St Louis Cardinals 2023
- Status
Agree. Both sides have messed up
DeWitt gave Mo some room to pick up salary in OF Ozuna years ago and increase payroll. We didn't know what he was giving up but the ace we are looking for has been traded. Literally gave up not one, but TWO #1 pitchers in Alcantara and Gallen in their primes. This trade is haunting us years later.
DeWitt should add salary but Mo has made some seriously questionable moves
Mo also brought in Arenado and Goldy for peanuts. Both trades were fleecings. Without Arenado and Goldy, where is this team even if you had Alcantara and Gallen and were able to develop them into what they are today (which is not a given)? Probably don't make the playoffs the last two years.
It's easy to blame Mo. He makes the trades. But it's a tough job, having to make virtually all roster improvements via trade because the owner won't give you the money to spend on free agents. And because he's haunted by Alcantara and Gallen he's trying to do it now without giving up good prospects either. It's pretty much impossible.
Also, Ozuna wasn't a huge salary bump. He was on the last two arb years of team control. We paid more money to Andrew Miller that offseason, and our overall salary went up $10 million from 2017 to 2018. Which was about a 6.7% increase. Something, but not earth shattering.
They should have hired Tito when they hired Matheny
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
What a turrible way to spend an afternoon , but I'm a Cardinals fan through and through as they get swept by the Angels 11-7..
I just can't understand the amount of 2 strike hits allowed by Cardinal's pitchers this year.....has to be the most or close to the most allowed in MLB this year......
Another thing that I found strange this game was Marmol sending Motter to pinch hit for Gorman........I get the lefty lefty and righty righty stats , but it ended up with Motter hitting against a right handed pitcher and it resulted in a pop up to the infield......
I would rather have Gorman against a lefty as compared to Motter against anybody...............JMHO
Waino scheduled for Tuesday night , I think........Gonna be a long long season unless something is done to shake the team out of their doldrums..........last place .............Never saw this coming before the season started...........Oh well , I have been enjoying the NBA and NHL playoffs so far..........
BTW , this Cardinals season so far reminds me of the Blues season all season long ......Down years for both.....hope it is just a fluke not a habit.......I really really do......................
I just can't understand the amount of 2 strike hits allowed by Cardinal's pitchers this year.....has to be the most or close to the most allowed in MLB this year......
Another thing that I found strange this game was Marmol sending Motter to pinch hit for Gorman........I get the lefty lefty and righty righty stats , but it ended up with Motter hitting against a right handed pitcher and it resulted in a pop up to the infield......
I would rather have Gorman against a lefty as compared to Motter against anybody...............JMHO
Waino scheduled for Tuesday night , I think........Gonna be a long long season unless something is done to shake the team out of their doldrums..........last place .............Never saw this coming before the season started...........Oh well , I have been enjoying the NBA and NHL playoffs so far..........
BTW , this Cardinals season so far reminds me of the Blues season all season long ......Down years for both.....hope it is just a fluke not a habit.......I really really do......................
No doubt. I have also praised him for those trades many times on here. The main conversation on this forum has been about an ace or starting pitcher this season. Mo messed up the Matz signing and also traded away two #1 pitchers years ago that are hampering us now. Wainwright is not a #1 starter but his injury has enhanced this even more. Glad to see he will be back Saturday(had tickets before I knew this)
Mo has just as much blame in this as DeWitt. MO has been around long enough to grow the farm system. Problem is we haven't grown generational talent since Pujols. Hopefully that will change with Walker, Winn, etc just never know until they make it up. The owner needs to spend more...no doubt. Mo also needs to stop with some of his I am smarter than everyone moves. Carpenter 2 year extension when didn't need to, Mikolas this offseason. Mo has made some tremendous/horrible moves. Some are great at the time, some hurt the club for years later.
Starting pitching has been a problem and we have a massive influx of average/above average infielders/OFs. They thought Ozuna was going to take the Cardinals to the next level and it didn't work out. We picked up Liberatore in a deal and traded away Arozarena. Sometimes you have to right the wrong and it just takes time...I don't expect Mo to be perfect.
I expect improvement but I am one of the few that isn't panicked if we have one bad season. Cardinals have the 6th longest winning streak for consecutive seasons all-time in MLB history going at 15 years. Chance it could be in jeopardy, same time Mo/DeWitt have made us continual contenders for a long time.
Heads up to random fans who don't pay attention to deferred money. There will be deferred money in the future that the owner pays out as well. Will be paying Wainwright $1M/yr over next 10 years, pay Arenado $3M/yr over 10 years which doesn't even start until 9-10 years from now. All of that stuff can be messed around with but all that stuff if factored in as well. I might have grandkids when Arenado receives his last payment.lol
Interesting thing is they counted that money towards this year's payroll. I thought, like many, when that was announced it meant more to spend this offseason. Team said no, that's still part of 2023 payroll. So when you see salary numbers for this season, it factors Waino in at the full $17.5 million, not just the $7.5 million he's actually receiving this year. Same with the $6 million deferred from Arenado. Another interesting thing is we're receiving $16 million towards from the Rockies this season as part of the Arenado trade. That also does not factor into payroll. In essence, when you see the payroll of the Cards, which is below league average, the team is actually paying a net $32 million less than that number this season.
As an outsider non-Cards fan, I’d have a real hard time getting too mad at the GM who committed grand larceny, not once, but twice in obtaining Goldschmidt and Arenado. Those were two once in a generation, franchise-altering opportunities to get in their prime future HoFers and your GM nailed it without giving away Jack squat. Extending Goldschmidt and then somehow convincing Arenado to not opt out are just icing on that cake as they’re paying Bargain prices compared to the free agent signings of the last couple years.
I still think the Cards are the most talented team in the division. Your offensive numbers don’t add up. Even with Arenado slumping, they’re above average in every rate stat, but are under average in runs per game. That looks like bad luck to me, and I’d anticipate an eventual snap back to normalcy.
The pitching, especially the starting pitching, is another matter. I think you’ve got to hang on and hope you can slug your way back into contention enough to justify another Bader for Montgomery style trade at the deadline.
If the Cards can just play at the 92-ish win pace anticipated of them in the pre-season, they could get to September looking to win about 85 games and snag the last wild card. But they have maybe another two, three weeks to get it going before that ship sails.
I still think the Cards are the most talented team in the division. Your offensive numbers don’t add up. Even with Arenado slumping, they’re above average in every rate stat, but are under average in runs per game. That looks like bad luck to me, and I’d anticipate an eventual snap back to normalcy.
The pitching, especially the starting pitching, is another matter. I think you’ve got to hang on and hope you can slug your way back into contention enough to justify another Bader for Montgomery style trade at the deadline.
If the Cards can just play at the 92-ish win pace anticipated of them in the pre-season, they could get to September looking to win about 85 games and snag the last wild card. But they have maybe another two, three weeks to get it going before that ship sails.
Nice! Wasn't aware of that at all with the deferred money. Like that they did that.
Gives us all that money for Ohtani
Lol, it's not a good thing. They literally justified not improving the team by citing $32 million they aren't actually spending. That's $32 million that could have improved our pitching.Nice! Wasn't aware of that at all with the deferred money. Like that they did that.
Gives us all that money for Ohtani
And it's not $32 million that's going to be reinvested at some future point. That's delusional. I am confident they will still cite that deferred money in future justifications as to why they aren't spending more. It's all the PR game DeWitt's been playing for years. The guy's been crying poor year after year while the stadium fills up game after game.
Bill DeWitt, MLB, and the lies we tell ourselves
MLB Owners seem to love money and hate baseball.
www.beyondtheboxscore.com
Once again we don't have to share the same opinion.lolLol, it's not a good thing. They literally justified not improving the team by citing $32 million they aren't actually spending. That's $32 million that could have improved our pitching.
And it's not $32 million that's going to be reinvested at some future point. That's delusional. I am confident they will still cite that deferred money in future justifications as to they aren't spending more. It's all the PR game DeWitt's been playing for years. The guy's been crying poor year after year while the stadium fills up game after game.
Bill DeWitt, MLB, and the lies we tell ourselves
MLB Owners seem to love money and hate baseball.
If you think it is delusional than so be it, not everyone does. I would rather get that money off than nickel and diming owing a few million here and there for long periods of time and eating into different years.
I believe Ozuna was damaged goods when he came to the Cardinals. He could barely throw from left field to the infield.
Very good information.
viking6888
Greeley, Colorado
In the words of the late Vince Lombardi: " What the hell's goin' on out there?"
Ryllini
- Lombard
The offense is running into some tough luck and that will balance out. The pitching is disgustingly bad. I haven't looked in the past week, but 2nd to last only in front of thr A's in barreled balls against. Teams are just mashing and not giving this defense a chance.
Unless things have changed, I though Waino was starting Saturday?
Ryllini
- Lombard
That is what I read. He starts on Saturday
Username doesn’t check out…You got anything from Bud Grant?
viking6888
Greeley, Colorado
Lol..Bud didn't say much on the sideline¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thought so. Was trying to figure out why someone said he wasn't starting til Tuesday.
Did you see this in an article or random comment somewhere?
Yeah this was announced a few days ago....almost going to be ticked off it he wasn't pitching Saturday. Have some family coming in town tomorrow and they want to attend so got bunch of tickets for the Saturday game before they announced Waino was back. Waino last season debut, bobblehead, cold beer and 80 degrees should make for a nice day.
Look in one of the comments above on this page.
All good...
I try not to read junk trade rumor pages but a Braves buddy of mine was showing me one about the Braves shipping Ozuna back to the Cardinals. After all the chat of him I had to laugh hard. Also had one where Carlson or TON was traded for some pitching.
I try not to read junk trade rumor pages but a Braves buddy of mine was showing me one about the Braves shipping Ozuna back to the Cardinals. After all the chat of him I had to laugh hard. Also had one where Carlson or TON was traded for some pitching.
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the national
- the Front Range
Unfortunately, many of these seem to have been walk-offs (minus the 1-0 vs. the Dodgers - Kershaw was a beast that day). For walk-offs, what are the bats to do? This all starts and finishes with the pitching. I'm not sure if Contreras behind the plate is contributing to the issues with his pitch calls, but the guys have to perform better.Cards have looked real bad so far but I am not throwing the towel in. Almost like a Tic Tac Toe Board of ways to lose and we have covered almost all of them a little over a month into the season(Been through years and years of frustration with Blues and season ticket holder...this is frustrating but not end of the world)
Cardinals need to designate Matz to the minors or at best move him to the bullpen. There are some guys in the minors that should be given a shot over some of the guys we have up. If they want to wait on trades, shake the roster up a bit.
Cardinals so far are 1-5 in one run games. They will need to shore this up but 3 of the past 4 World Series have had teams with losing records at this time. Not at this record but none of them looked like teams that would make that run either. 2019 Nationals 13-18 (won WS), 2021 Braves 15-16 (won WS) and 2022 Phillies 14-17(lost WS). That in no way means I think the Cardinals will make the World Series but teams do make runs. If a month from now we stay where we are or lose more ground than it is time to play for next season and move guys we don't plan on seeing on next years squad.
- Status