Conference Realignment

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#226      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
mattcoldagelli
ChiefGritty said:
Either.

I mean when you think about median air miles traveled for a conference schedule (and remember, football plays one of the smallest), it surely makes that number higher, right?

They might try to really aggressively pod the non-revenue sports (and should), but they can't for basketball. Rutgers won't play Oregon every year, but before this move it was never. And the quiet part was said loud when USC and UCLA joined: the travel problem falls very disproportionately on them rather than the rest of us.
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It also allows USC and UCLA to play someone (other than each other) in their own time zone.

A sizable chunk of realignment/expansion criticism is "but my regionalism!" and if that's really what people mean* then having the entire Pacific coast is better than having one city out on an island.


*90% of the time they don't mean this, they mean "but my nostalgia!"
 
#227      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
ChiefGritty said:
The answer is Washington and one of Stanford/Cal but not both to get two major metros with two schools, right?

Washington and Cal as the West Coast version of Maryland and Rutgers makes sense.
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I think you are almost certainly right. I would be curious to know who would have been seen as more valuable for Stanford vs. Cal. My gut would have said Cal, as it has the bigger alumni base and - according to the very limited data I can find, such as that NYT fan map - seems to have broader appeal in the Bay Area than Stanford. However, I have also seen it reported that Cal has unique financial problems, and it really isn't your average state flagship school like Maryland and Rutgers are, and I wonder if the elite academic image limits its fan base in California like Northwestern is limited in Chicago.
 
#228      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
mattcoldagelli said:
It also allows USC and UCLA to play someone (other than each other) in their own time zone.

A sizable chunk of realignment/expansion criticism is "but my regionalism!" and if that's really what people mean* then having the entire Pacific coast is better than having one city out on an island.


*90% of the time they don't mean this, they mean "but my nostalgia!"
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To be clear I mean both.

But that's what I'm saying. The travel burdens for USC and UCLA get somewhat better in exchange for the travel burdens of everyone else (including Oregon and Washington) get quite a bit worse.

It's negative sum. The average Big Ten team must travel farther after UW and UO than before.

For whatever it's worth, I think the travel number probably goes down a decent bit if you then add Cal and Stanford on top of that, and way down for the poor non-revenue kids sitting in coach on commercial flights if you put a pod system together with that as a central factor. It wouldn't really be a conference in the traditional sense for, like, women's soccer, but who's pretending this is a conference at this point anyway?
 
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#230      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Epsilon said:
Just merge the conferences.
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For TV purposes this should have and would have happened in 1985 when the schools and conferences got control of the TV rights.

The Big Ten and Pac 10 wouldn't join and signed their own deal together.

The Big Cain and Pac Abel, in the end. A tragedy of biblical proportions. (That one's for you @Joel Goodson )
 
#231      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
respect my decision™
Joel Goodson
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I think you are almost certainly right. I would be curious to know who would have been seen as more valuable for Stanford vs. Cal. My gut would have said Cal, as it has the bigger alumni base and - according to the very limited data I can find, such as that NYT fan map - seems to have broader appeal in the Bay Area than Stanford. However, I have also seen it reported that Cal has unique financial problems, and it really isn't your average state flagship school like Maryland and Rutgers are, and I wonder if the elite academic image limits its fan base in California like Northwestern is limited in Chicago.
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Stanford is an (the?) administrations' and academias' wet dream. Cal's no slouch, but Stanford's cachet in those circles is virtually unparalleled (select Ivys). Given the choice, I'd guess a big majority would opt for both.
 
#232      

TentakilRex

TentakilRex
Land O Insects between Quincy-Macomb-Jacksonville
TentakilRex
Mr. Tibbs said:
it’s hard to know how it plays out , but
really the only school to leave the B1G was U of Chicago 80 years ago

schools just don’t leave the B1G for many many reasons . I don’t see that changing
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Well U of Chicago is still in the B1G Academic Alliance, hehe.
ChiefGritty said:
The answer is Washington and one of Stanford/Cal but not both to get two major metros with two schools, right?

Washington and Cal as the West Coast version of Maryland and Rutgers makes sense.
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I agree it will be Washington and Stanford in the end. but it will for because of academic aspects of the Big Ten like the Big Ten Academic Alliance. For pure football reasons and a smaller extent TV/streaming eyeballs, Stanford is inferior to Oregon (who I think is near maxed on potential) or one the Arizona schools (whose programs has been a speedrun of Illini/Kansas poor program template). I know Stanford is prestige brand but it seems to me that getting private school Stanford for the Bay Area market is at least as iffy as getting Northwestern for Chicago or worse getting SMU for DFW. At least Oregon, though the size of Iowa, at least has a fairly rabid fan base.
 
#234      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
respect my decision™
Joel Goodson
IlliniSaluki said:
I would just like to point out that the whole deal with OR & WA taking half/partial shares would only be until the next Media Rights deal in 2030 (I think?). This is not unheard of in the B1G. Nebraska was partial share for 6 years before they were whole. Maryland & Rutgers are still partial shares because they took out loans from the B1G when they joined and will be whole at some point in the middle of this new Media deal they are starting this year. The only reason USC & UCLA are full shares from the start is because they joined at the time of a new Media deal being negotiated.

Just wanted to throw the tidbit out their in case anyone might of thought the B1G was doing any kind of permanent partial share thing. They are not.
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Just because prior deals worked that way, has no bearing on new deals. Guessing that performance milestones for increasing one's share is gonna be the norm. We'll see. Cue up the slippery slope posts
 
#236      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Epsilon said:
Lots to unpack with this opinion piece. @ChiefGritty - this spot on?

www.usatoday.com

Failed leaders and pathetic backstabbers are ruining college sports

College athletics is in existential crises, going from a small business to a bloated, self-indulgent industry. All that matters is feeding the beast.
www.usatoday.com
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That's a great article. The vitriol is deserved and not a wrong word in it.

And I like how it takes the broader view. This isn't one headline, its a process that has rolled out on multiple fronts over decades.

It's twofold really, the leaders of college sports were both unflinchingly selfish at every possible juncture rather than acting in collective, cooperative stewardship of a national institution, and then operated from an irrationally short term mindset willing to salt the fields to make the next year's harvest.

That's just the religion they're teaching in America's boardrooms and business schools now, exploiting principal-agent problems and irrationally discounting the future.

When our leadership class drives human society into a ditch, don't blame them for failing to point us toward a bright future, they were never trying to in the first place.
 
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#237      

Epsilon

Epsilon
M tipping over
Pdx
Epsilon
ChiefGritty said:
That's a great article. The vitriol is deserved and not a wrong word in it.

And I like how it takes the broader view. This isn't one headline, its a process that has rolled out on multiple fronts over decades.

It's twofold really, the leaders of college sports were both unflinchingly selfish at every possible juncture rather than acting in collective, cooperative stewardship of a national institution, and then operated from an irrationally short term mindset willing to salt the fields to make the next year's harvest.

That's just the religion they're teaching in America's boardrooms and business schools now, exploiting principal-agent problems and irrationally discounting the future.

When our leadership class drives human society into a ditch, don't blame them for failing to point us toward a bright future, they were never trying to in the first place.
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On a lighter note, how do you feel about identity politics, campaign finance / corporate citizenship, and global warming?

Ice Hockey GIF by NHL
 
#239      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
I'm going to relieve myself of the burden of "CIC is meaningless" posting. I have literally attended CIC functions, but y'all believe what you want to believe.

You should be forced to take the coach red-eye to LAX with our gymnastics team if you believe that the NIH is looking at the football standings when making grant awards. Hey, at least the gymnastics kids are small enough to fit comfortably in the seats.

But yeah, the academic community is abuzz about the revolutionary potential of these moves to foster collaboration in quantum computing. They're all frantically refreshing Pete Thamel's twitter.

ChiefGritty said:
I'm going to relieve myself of the burden of "CIC is meaningless" posting.
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Argh gosh darn it I need to stop myself.
 
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#241      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Epsilon said:
Kind of funny how the 5 assumed new entrants to the Big 12 nearly triple the research dollars there.
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No, the REALLY funny thing is that the state government's decision to put the University of Oregon Medical Center, an institution located in Portland with zero undergraduate students, under independent governance some years back, magically transforms UO from Harvard of the Cascades to the Phil Knight School For Kids Who Can't Read Good.
 
#244      

Illinoise

Illinoise
Illinoise
The ACC is very interesting. ESPN has the rights, but if the conference is hamstrung by the deal and won’t be competitive in 5 years are they better off negotiating an out for teams? This contract seems to be one that won’t work well for either party long term as currently structured. Those kind of deals tend to get reworked.
 
#245      

Epsilon

Epsilon
M tipping over
Pdx
Epsilon
ChiefGritty said:
No, the REALLY funny thing is that the state government's decision to put the University of Oregon Medical Center, an institution located in Portland with zero undergraduate students, under independent governance some years back, magically transforms UO from Harvard of the Cascades to the Phil Knight School For Kids Who Can't Read Good.
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There is little I can do to defend any State government’s actions (especially these days) but you’re underselling the rest of UO. No, it’s not Harvard, but it’s competitive enough for a state school.

Edit: if you’re talking about research dollars, then yeah, it’s hard to argue that didn’t have an impact.
 
#249      

fuddrules

F
fuddrules
ChiefGritty said:
Show of hands on a message board dedicated to a team that won't be included: do you have any real interest in watching that? College football has always been my favorite sport so honestly my answer is some interest, but not like before, not even close.
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I may watch an hour a cable TV a week. Sometimes none.

College football season changes that a lot. College basketball some. Professional sports - none other than NFL which might be 4 hours during a heavy month.
 
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