Illinois 88, Southern 60 Postgame

#101      

Vinegarben

V
Vinegarben
Last year Coleman stats;
UCLA-5 pts-5 to
Virginia-10pts-3 to
Texas-9 pts-2 to
Mo-4 pts-6 to
Iowa-6 pts-3to
Indiana-6 pts-3 to
Purdue 6 pts-1 to
Arkansas 10 pts-6 to

Big NBA prospect barely shows blimp on the radar. Wonder how many points he gave up on his turnovers? Fails to show up in big games.
 
#102      

JaxIllini

J
JaxIllini
GallopingGhost said:
That’s what I was gonna say- no crutches is +++.

Broken ankle or foot you wouldn’t be putting any weight on it at all, likely. Not even in a boot. Sucks to see the time of the injury just as he was starting to gel at PG

Edit: but Brad saying it was a foot, not ankle. I like that less. Get better soon Nico 💚🤍❤️
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Hope it is not the dreaded lis franc. My son had that when someone landed on his foot after he came down with a rebound.
 
#104      

BashCtIllini

BashCtIllini
BashCtIllini
NarrowJ said:
Moretti also has more turnovers in half the minutes. Moretti has not shown a jump shot at all, let alone a consistent one. Moretti is 1/10th the defensive player Ty is. And you want Moretti to play because he has 1 more assist? Okay...

You want Rodgers to shoot more free throws? You'll need to explain that one a bit further, I'm afraid.

The only way to get our 5 best players on the court at the same time is for Ty Rodgers to play PG. And, as facts & statistics show once again, he's one of the best at the position in the conference thus far.

Moretti will be a very good PG, but now isn't the time.
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no, I'm not advocating for 1 or the other. What I'm saying is we are weak at PG. But that said, Moretti is far more of an actual PG than Rodgers.
 
#105      

Loyalillini10

L
Urbana, IL
Loyalillini10
NarrowJ said:
I'm unsure about the flat out NIL transfer PG miss thing, really. We went after Dennis, but after him, we said 'no thanks' to more than a few, per guys we have here that are plugged in. We took Harmon instead of another PG, if that tells us anything.

He's our PG right now, and if Moretti is the alternative, then great. But he has some work to do also as he averages more turnovers per game than Ty does while playing half the amount of minutes (and not to mention Ty is light years better on defense / guards any position).

As the facts/statistics show, Ty is doing more than fine.
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Yes, but that doesn’t fit the “Ty is not a PG narrative.” Loyalty goers are not going to let any facts get in the way of a good old-fashioned narrative.
 
#106      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
BashCtIllini said:
no, I'm not advocating for 1 or the other. What I'm saying is we are weak at PG. But that said, Moretti is far more of an actual PG than Rodgers.
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Only thing there I'd take an issue with is us being weak at PG. Ty is one of the best in our conference, per numbers. Our issues as they are now seem to be effort, FT shooting and I think the turnovers will subside once these guys play together for 1/2 a season or so. You can also point to 3 point shooting, but Hawkins/Domask/DGL are better shooters than they've shown in this early non-con season.
 
#107      

State of Chicago

S
State of Chicago
NarrowJ said:
Only thing there I'd take an issue with is us being weak at PG. Ty is one of the best in our conference, per numbers. Our issues as they are now seem to be effort, FT shooting and I think the turnovers will subside once these guys play together for 1/2 a season or so. You can also point to 3 point shooting, but Hawkins/Domask/DGL are better shooters than they've shown in this early non-con season.
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Delete
 
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#108      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
State of Chicago said:
Please expand on Ty being one of the best PG in the conference, per the numbers.
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Already did, previously. Read back through the thread. Out of 14 starting PGs in the conference, only 1 has less turnovers per game and his player efficiency rating is near the top of that list also. This all not to mention he's likely the best defender out of all of them, to boot.
 
#109      

State of Chicago

S
State of Chicago
NarrowJ said:
Already did, previously. Read back through the thread. Out of 14 starting PGs in the conference, only 1 has less turnovers per game and his player efficiency rating is near the top of that list also. This all not to mention he's likely the best defender out of all of them, to boot.
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Yeah. I didn’t go back far enough. Deleted my post. Thanks.
 
#110      

jacekpardol

jacekpardol
jacekpardol
NarrowJ said:
Already did, previously. Read back through the thread. Out of 14 starting PGs in the conference, only 1 has less turnovers per game and his player efficiency rating is near the top of that list also. This all not to mention he's likely the best defender out of all of them, to boot.
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2023-2024 Men's Basketball - Overall Statistics - Big Ten Conference

The official 2023-2024 Men's Basketball cumulative statistics for Big Ten Conference
bigten.org bigten.org

We have a starting PG that isnt even top 25 in the conference for assits. Furthmore, he cant shoot the 3 so defenses sag on him and are able to commit to other players.
 
#111      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
NarrowJ said:
He's played PG his entire life.

This Ty can't play PG stuff is foolish. He's played PG all throughout high school, played PG last year (played it a ton toward the end of the year) and he's playing it now and taking care of the ball. There are currently 4 Illini players with more TO/game than Ty Rodgers and he is the PG and has the ball in his hands as much or more than anyone on the team when he is in the game. Our PG play has most certainly not been the issue. We need to find something else to complain about (3pt and FT shooting will suffice, no?).
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PG isn’t just about not turning the ball over. And you fail to mention that 4 guys on the team have more assists than Ty. Would some of the reliance on the 3 be alleviated if we had a more “traditional” PG that could push the ball and get the team into the offense effectively like Moretti did against Southern? I’m not saying Moretti is the answer this year by any stretch (it was against Southern after all), but having that type of PG would really help this team IMO. Unfortunately we don’t have that guy on the roster. I like Ty and his game — just not at PG. I’d like a PG whose career high in assists is more than 3 given “the ton” he played there last year as well as being the starting PG this year.
 
#112      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
jacekpardol said:

2023-2024 Men's Basketball - Overall Statistics - Big Ten Conference

The official 2023-2024 Men's Basketball cumulative statistics for Big Ten Conference
bigten.org bigten.org

We have a starting PG that isnt even top 25 in the conference for assits. Furthmore, he cant shoot the 3 so defenses sag on him and are able to commit to other players.
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See all other stats. He's a game manager PG, not a flashy score-first turnover machine that can't guard anyone other than another PG because he's 6'1"

Defenses have not sagged off of him, because when they do he gets inside for an easy two. This is not Jalen Tate.
 
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#113      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
EyeoftheIllini said:
PG isn’t just about not turning the ball over. And you fail to mention that 4 guys on the team have more assists than Ty. Would some of the reliance on the 3 be alleviated if we had a more “traditional” PG that could push the ball and get the team into the offense effectively like Moretti did against Southern? I’m not saying Moretti is the answer this year by any stretch (it was against Southern after all), but having that type of PG would really help this team IMO. Unfortunately we don’t have that guy on the roster. I like Ty and his game — just not at PG. I’d like a PG whose career high in assists is more than 3 given “the ton” he played there last year as well as being the starting PG this year.
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You guys should care more about everything else other than assist numbers. You're getting hung up on something that doesn't even matter, cherry-picking one stat that is completely meaningless in context and ignoring all other the positives he brings as a PG (which again, are many).
 
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#114      

jacekpardol

jacekpardol
jacekpardol
NarrowJ said:
You guys should care more about everything else other than assist numbers. You're getting hung up on something that doesn't even matter, cherry-picking one stat that is completely meaningless in context and ignoring all other the positives he brings as a PG (which again, are many).
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Judging a PG on how many assits he has in not cherry picking. It's literally the main purpose of his position.
 
#115      

OB positive

O
OB positive
NarrowJ said:
Again, Moretti is not ready to see full minutes vs P5 comp. Also what have you seen from him that remotely shows a consistent outside shot? He's going to be a really good player for us down the road, likely starting next season if he is able to improve his body/strength.

Is Ty a B1G caliber PG? Out of the 14 B1G starting PGs, only one has less turnovers. He's also near the top of that list in PER (Player Efficiency Rating) and is likely the best defender out of all of them. So, objectively (using statistics/facts), he is one of the best PGs in the conference thus far.

Is he more of a game manager? Sure. Is that better than a flashy, shoot-first guy who turns it over a ton and is small and can't defend 5 positions?
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I get it, you like Ty at point gaurd. He's still not the solution. We need him playing his more natural position. Moretti and DGL are both better at running things for us than last years options. We have already seen that Brad has shied from having Ty out there as point gaurd for extended minutes.
 
#116      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
OB positive said:
I get it, you like Ty at point gaurd. He's still not the solution. We need him playing his more natural position. Moretti and DGL are both better at running things for us than last years options. We have already seen that Brad has shied from having Ty out there as point gaurd for extended minutes.
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Moretti and DGL both need a lot of work on their bodies and game before either of them can be our primary PG. Which is why they are not. Moretti played last night because the opponent was Southern U and not Marquette. Are you more qualified to coach this team than the group of people who are? Didn't think so.
 
#117      

Ga65

G
Ga65
jacekpardol said:
I get all that and I'm fine with him as someone that can fill the PG hole but you have a guy that can't shoot or dish out dimes running around on the perimeter.
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Wonder how he is averaging 7 pts and 4 rebounds running around the perimeter? Can’t shoot from outside so that is a mystery. Guess there are a lot of long rebounds.
 
#118      

BRucks

BRucks
BRucks
PattyOBryant said:
Over/under 147.5. Final 148. How do they do that?
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#119      

whatahack

W
St. Peters MO
whatahack
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I got to watch this whole one, and I liked what I saw! Obviously, the turnovers are an issue. However, I am still kind of hopeful this might improve and we are not doomed to suffer from last year's issues:

Total: 21 turnovers
3 for Gibbs-Lawhorn (Freshman)
3 for Domask (Transfer)
2 for Guerrier (Transfer)
2 for Rodgers (Sophomore)
2 for Shannon (Senior)
2 for Moretti (Freshman)
2 for Harmon (Transfer)
2 for Goode (Junior)
1 for Hansberry (Freshman)
1 for Williams (Senior)
1 for Dainja (Junior)

So strictly by class:
- 7 for Transfers
- 6 for Freshmen
- 3 for Juniors
- 3 for Seniors
- 2 for Sophomores

So nearly two thirds of our turnovers were from transfers or freshmen, and our starters only had 10 (not elite but not anywhere near as bad). Of our starters' 10 turnovers, 60% were from brand new transfers The garbage time turnover from Williams should hardly count as a "turnover from one of our seniors," haha. Ty only had 2, and Shannon only had 2 in 30 minutes of play.

The point is, I think there is serious and realistic hope for material improvement in this regard. I am very excited to see how we can respond to these upcoming difficult tests ... because this stretch will be huge. Let's assume we can get past Western Illinois at home, because if we cannot, we have way bigger issues.

--- Illini are 5-1 and likely ranked around #23 still ---
at Rutgers
vs. #10 FAU
at #7 Tennessee

Our season outlook fundamentally changes based on those three games, IMO. I mean, don't get me wrong - our season will not be defined in early December (if it were, last year would have been a smashing success!!). However, the Big Ten looks weak, and getting two of these three would be massive for our NCAAT resume. RU on the road has the chance to be a Quad 1 win, and the other two almost certainly would be. I think winning in Knoxville will be REALLY tough, but I think we can take the first two.
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Great info...thanks. I'm not asking for you to go back and do this. But if you do again in the future, I'd be interested in unforced errors versus actual steals.
 
#120      

OB positive

O
OB positive
NarrowJ said:
Moretti and DGL both need a lot of work on their bodies and game before either of them can be our primary PG. Which is why they are not. Moretti played last night because the opponent was Southern U and not Marquette. Are you more qualified to coach this team than the group of people who are? Didn't think so.
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Never said I was qualified to coach this team just pointing out Brad has already been using a lot of other people as point gaurd other than Ty. That tells me he is not the definitive answer for our point gaurd going forward. Like you said we have yet to get into the big 10 season yet and it is already becoming apparent that others are going to have to fill in at the point gaurd spot to get better facilitation and spacing on offense.
 
#121      

NarrowJ

NarrowJ
NarrowJ
OB positive said:
Never said I was qualified to coach this team just pointing out Brad has already been using a lot of other people as point gaurd other than Ty. That tells me he is not the definitive answer for our point gaurd going forward. Like you said we have yet to get into the big 10 season yet and it is already becoming apparent that others are going to have to fill in at the point gaurd spot to get better facilitation and spacing on offense.
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Ty isn't the *only* PG, but he's the primary one. Also, take into account the level of competition. How many minutes did Moretti play vs Marquette? Zero.

Moretti is going to be a very good PG, he's just not ready yet.
 
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