No expert on University policy, but I don't believe Universities operate under the same ideals as the legal/criminal system, or even use the same process. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment, but they have internal processes that would need to be challenged in civil court. They can boot/suspend students under their administrative protocols (and do). I seem to recall some students who were booted from Illinois for having a party off campus with underage drinking. No one was arrested, but they held a hearing and decided they violated policy and tossed them.
TSJ Thread
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No expert on University policy, but I don't believe Universities operate under the same ideals as the legal/criminal system, or even use the same process. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment, but they have internal processes that would need to be challenged in civil court. They can boot/suspend students under their administrative protocols (and do). I seem to recall some students who were booted from Illinois for having a party off campus with underage drinking. No one was arrested, but they held a hearing and decided they violated policy and tossed them.
JW
- Vancouver
No offense, but this is profoundly ignorant and laughable. The University of Illinois isn't violating any of Shannon Jr's constitutional rights.
It also seems many in the forum fundamentally do not understand the application of the presumption of innocence. Shannon has this protection in his legal proceedings in Kansas. The presumption is not applicable to his participation with the basketball team.
Further, as Whitman mentioned in his press conference, Shannon retains his scholarship.
Just curious, but JW went out of his way multiple times to state the separation of the university, DIA, and the team from the situation but he also said it was people associated with the University who drove TSJ to Kansas and back. Does that seem odd? I wouldn't think the University would transport a non-athlete student to another state to face charges.
Where does your "very minor misdemeanor sex assault" collide with Josh's "zero tolerance policy?" Serious question and I do not know the answer.
JW
- Vancouver
Agreed and good catch. I noticed that comment and thought it might appear inappropriate.
If any regular student at the university were in the same position, would they be escorted by university officials in the same manner?
But I don't know the details so I reserve criticism.
I don't think there is "very minor misdemeanor sex assault". If TJ pleads guilty to sexual assault, I cannot imagine he'll return to the team.
Why? He’d have to be an Illini fan if not dead
Ref. "Misdemeanor" ...Kendrick nunn pled to misdemeanor and removed from team.
Yes, I agree. I don't think there is such a thing. I asked that question in reply to someone who mentioned TSJ accepting responsibility for that very thing. But maybe the University would look at it differently. I truly don't know. My leaning would be if there is admission of any level of assault, he won't be back.
Right admission he’s not back…
Take it to court and he’s not back…
No win situation for all parties.
If he's cleared in court he may save his pro career
Also, an admission of guilt probably opens him up to the possibility of successful civil action against him.
Or maybe, just don't put yourself in a situation where something like that could happen. Just sayin'.
JW
- Vancouver
Yes - in Delusion Land. Or in a world where this version of the Constitution doesn't exist.
The presumption of innocence applies in his legal proceedings.
As for due process, he is not being arbitrarily expelled from the university. He even remains on scholarship. He is simply temporarily denied the ability to participate with the basketball team because he was charged with the very serious crime of rape.
I agree, however, I would love to take a look at any footage the bar may have of the "encounter." Would be useful to determine how much "force" took place. Or, it may completely corroborate the charges.
That's what Brad Sturdy tweeted
This isn't realistic for, I'd hazard, the majority of college students. I get that he has a lot to lose, but I don't think that means he shouldn't be able to enjoy consensual encounters with women.
How much force could possibly happen in a crowded bar after a football game?
I agree. But if a female says no, regardless of what level of contact it is, one should have enough self control to know when to stop.
Chad Fleck
- Eureka, IL
Yep, those are things I never would do or did.
1. Drunkenness
2. Fool around before marriage.
We should stop thinking these things are okay because they are so prevalent.
Absolutely. That could have happened here - we just don't know. But any sexual encounter, including those that are consensual, could "put him in this situation."
I haven't read all posts (I almost always do but I'm at the game)....but I just need to voice my support for Josh Whitman and his team on the DIA. He has handled this impeccably so far. He was actually extremely forthcoming in his presser without saying anything that could interfere with the process. Whether TSJ gets his name cleared promptly or not, I'm proud of who we are as a university.
A lot of people who are actively trying to be outraged right now.
A lot of people who are actively trying to be outraged right now.
You guys all know I’m not really Bryce Hopkins, right?
from the news gazette: "the Illinois athletic director said he did not see the charging report until Thursday after a DIA staffer retrieved it from social media." seems bizarre that this report would be available on social media before the Lawrence PD sends it to UIPD/JW. they were clearly asking for any kind of report or written information from them.
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