TSJ Thread

[SuperintendentChalmers]

I too feel like TSJ lawyer will come after the university hard once his name is cleared.

Smart money is on TSJ clearing his name.

So the univeristy must choose between a potential multimillion dollar lawsuit or yielding to rabid ideologues.

Outside of even being a huge fan of the men's basketball team, I know what I would do.

Even if TSJ is cleared, why would the University be liable for millions of dollars? Are they not allowed to have a rule saying that someone charged with rape can't play for the school's basketball team? Are they required to know more about what happened than the police and DA? Assuming this prosecution is bogus, TSJ's case is against the Kansas authorities.

To put it another way, TSJ's professional earning ability is based on the outcome of what happens in Kansas. We could reinstate him today and the fact that he plays 15-20 games for us in the next few months won't make any difference if there's a bad result there.

 

[jacekpardol]

Even if TSJ is cleared, why would the University be liable for millions of dollars? Are they not allowed to have a rule saying that someone charged with rape can't play for the school's basketball team? Are they required to know more about what happened than the police and DA? Assuming this prosecution is bogus, TSJ's case is against the Kansas authorities.

To put it another way, TSJ's professional earning ability is based on the outcome of what happens in Kansas. We could reinstate him today and the fact that he plays 15-20 games for us in the next few months won't make any difference if there's a bad result there.

A university's rule doesnt eclipse law.

 

[Illiniguy13]

you making my point, we literally don't know anything about the evidence, just the charges. I actually think you don't understand the legal system. they don't make evidence public knowledge, we are not the ones trying this case. IF this goes to trial TSJ has a very f-ing serious situation on his hands.

I'm not saying being charged implies anything except that have been charged by DA. Maybe you have history with this maybe not, but its not a walk in the park. If TSJ is innocent he needs to beat the charge. In cases of rape, literally, the victim testimony is massive particularly if backed by witnesses. I've read loads of crap on this board and stayed quiet for a good bit but there are serious ripples of this and it very much appears to me that people are downplaying the severity of all of this because want him to suit up against Maryland.

and despite what you think I very much want TSJ to be innocent and play the remainder of the season.

You make statements like this and then previously express concern over not seeing any evidence that points to TSJ's innocence? I'm not trying to discredit you here and have no idea if you're an attorney or not, but you're all over the place with these posts

 

[BlueLeader]

View attachment 30142

If TSJ's case doesn't have anything to do with Title IX, this is irrelevant.

 

[Krombopulos_Michael]

Even if TSJ is cleared, why would the University be liable for millions of dollars? Are they not allowed to have a rule saying that someone charged with rape can't play for the school's basketball team? Are they required to know more about what happened than the police and DA? Assuming this prosecution is bogus, TSJ's case is against the Kansas authorities.

To put it another way, TSJ's professional earning ability is based on the outcome of what happens in Kansas. We could reinstate him today and the fact that he plays 15-20 games for us in the next few months won't make any difference if there's a bad result there.

A reality that doesn’t seem to be discussed enough.

 

[The Sprouting Divot]

You make statements like this and then previously express concern over not seeing any evidence that points to TSJ's innocence? I'm not trying to discredit you here and have no idea if you're an attorney or not, but you're all over the place with these posts

95+% of the content of these threads has been entirely speculative.

Only a small handful of posters aren't talking 100% out of their asses.

 

[jacekpardol]

A reality that doesn’t seem to be discussed enough.

A kid going into the draft that has been playing high level ball in the NCAA is a lot different then a kid going into the draft that has been playing COD all day for 7 months.

 

[NarrowJ]

Even if TSJ is cleared, why would the University be liable for millions of dollars? Are they not allowed to have a rule saying that someone charged with rape can't play for the school's basketball team? Are they required to know more about what happened than the police and DA? Assuming this prosecution is bogus, TSJ's case is against the Kansas authorities.

To put it another way, TSJ's professional earning ability is based on the outcome of what happens in Kansas. We could reinstate him today and the fact that he plays 15-20 games for us in the next few months won't make any difference if there's a bad result there.

I thought the whole point of due process was to protect innocent people who are accused of a crime, though? If the entire approach is "lets suspend/punish the accused because there's a chance they are guilty and thus the due process is all for naught" then is that actually due process? I hope this doesn't come across as too challenging, its really just a (skeptical) question.

 

[Krombopulos_Michael]

95+% of the content of these threads has been entirely speculative.

Only a small handful of posters aren't talking 100% out of their asses.

Is that limited to these threads? Bc based on my own post history I know where I fall on that spectrum.

 

[CharliedonSurf]

95+% of the content of these threads has been entirely speculative.

Only a small handful of posters aren't talking 100% out of their asses.

Agreed. I'd much rather see this thread just post gifs about funny lawyer characters.

 

[dmb24illini]

IANAL but...after reading TSJ's lawyer's submissions and the University's response, I'm not feeling good about today's ruling. I'm hopeful I'm pleasantly surprised and he is granted the TRO.

I think the Title IX case is rebutted quite well by the University. I think Hobson’s statement is flimsy compared to Whitman/Alexander. Or, at least, very contradictory which is basically the crux of the Title IX accusation. IMO, TSJ's team overplayed their hand with that part of the TRO. Again, I'm not a lawyer.

I do think there is irreperable harm...how could there not be? TSJ stands to lose millions of dollars. Yes, the NBA draft is speculative but all signs were pointing up with his performance on the court which is now being taken away from him. However, the University puts up some other court cases that reinforces their side. Which is why I don't feel optimistic (again, not a lawyer).

I feel just truly awful for TSJ who seems caught in the crossfire of a really unfortunate situation. I believe he's innocent but the wheels of justice turn too slow. I pray he's granted the TRO today but preparing for the worst.

 

[Nuke Dukem]

. . . and the University will be just fine . . . .

I don’t know man. Their basketball team didn’t make it to the Final Four. The football team hasn’t won a playoff game since then. Saban retired…

 

[Nuke Dukem]

How many funny lawyers do you know?

Funny haha? Or funny …. Oh nevermind.

 

[IndyILL]

Weaponizing the process...???

1. Because the lawyers on this board have made it clear that the believability of an alleged rape victim's testimony, with no other evidence, can be enough to charge a person with rape...

2. Because of the ever-increasing $$$ and prestige to be had in college athletics for schools that win national titles, for players that earn post-season acclaim etc.

3. Is it a stretch to believe that people within an aspiring college athletic program (or very near that program) seeking to improve their odds of winning a National Title might decide to deliver a brown bag to an individual in exchange for a convincing allegation of rape against their rival's best player(s)?

 

[pruman91]

 

[sacraig]

Agreed. I'd much rather see this thread just post gifs about funny lawyer characters.

 

[The Sprouting Divot]

Weaponizing the process...???

1. Because the lawyers on this board have made it clear that the believability of an alleged rape victim's testimony, with no other evidence, can be enough to charge a person with rape...

2. Because of the ever-increasing $$$ and prestige to be had in college athletics for schools that win national titles, for players that earn post-season acclaim etc.

3. Is it a stretch to believe that people within an aspiring college athletic program (or very near that program) seeking to improve their odds of winning a National Title might decide to deliver a brown bag to an individual in exchange for a convincing allegation of rape against their rival's best player(s)?

Yes.
Seek help.

 

[IndyILL]

Yes.
Seek help.

Clarification... not referring to TSJ but wondering about how this could be used down the road.

 

[WyattEarp]

Agreed. I'd much rather see this thread just post gifs about funny lawyer characters.

 

[PattyOBryant]

Weaponizing the process...???

1. Because the lawyers on this board have made it clear that the believability of an alleged rape victim's testimony, with no other evidence, can be enough to charge a person with rape...

2. Because of the ever-increasing $$$ and prestige to be had in college athletics for schools that win national titles, for players that earn post-season acclaim etc.

3. Is it a stretch to believe that people within an aspiring college athletic program (or very near that program) seeking to improve their odds of winning a National Title might decide to deliver a brown bag to an individual in exchange for a convincing allegation of rape against their rival's best player(s)?

 

[tatupu70]

IANAL but...after reading TSJ's lawyer's submissions and the University's response, I'm not feeling good about today's ruling. I'm hopeful I'm pleasantly surprised and he is granted the TRO.

I think the Title IX case is rebutted quite well by the University. I think Hobson’s statement is flimsy compared to Whitman/Alexander. Or, at least, very contradictory which is basically the crux of the Title IX accusation. IMO, TSJ's team overplayed their hand with that part of the TRO. Again, I'm not a lawyer.

I do think there is irreperable harm...how could there not be? TSJ stands to lose millions of dollars. Yes, the NBA draft is speculative but all signs were pointing up with his performance on the court which is now being taken away from him. However, the University puts up some other court cases that reinforces their side. Which is why I don't feel optimistic (again, not a lawyer).

I feel just truly awful for TSJ who seems caught in the crossfire of a really unfortunate situation. I believe he's innocent but the wheels of justice turn too slow. I pray he's granted the TRO today but preparing for the worst.

I think it's pretty easy to make a case that there isn't any harm. Athletes get drafted into the NBA with 0 years of college, 1 year of college, 2 years of college. TJ has played 4+ years. Scouts have seen more than enough of him to assess his value. Sure, if he played more games, it's possible his play would increase his value, but it's also possible his play would reduce his value--it's not a guarantee that additional games increase his payday..

 

[DJM]

Even reading Shannon's argument about title ix seemed like a stretch legally speaking. I havent read the u of is brief but consider the following

OFF-CAMPUS CONDUCT​

Under Title IX’s existing statutory and regulatory definition of “program or activity” and the language added under § 106.44(a) of the new rules, a recipient’s Title IX obligations will clearly apply to all incidents of “sexual harassment” of which the recipient has “actual knowledge” (as both quoted terms are defined in § 106.30) occurring on its campus. Responding to expressed concerns about ambiguities over what constitutes an “education program or activity” pertaining to off-campus conduct, the Department has confirmed that a recipient’s Title IX obligations extend to off-campus sexual harassment incidents if any of three conditions are met:

• the off-campus incident occurs as part of the recipient’s “operations” pursuant to 20 U.S.C. § 1687 and 34 CFR 106.2(h);
• the recipient exercised substantial control over the respondent and the context of the alleged sexual harassment that occurred off-campus; or
• the incident of sexual harassment occurs at an off-campus building owned or controlled by a student organization recognized by a postsecondary institution.

Id. at 30196-97.

Imo none of those 3 exist here.

see Pops Isaacs of Texas Tech as an example of applying Title lX and then what Tech did in response. They relied on Title lX's office stating he remains in good standing so he's still playing (and scoring 24 points 3 nights ago). Tech's procedure is not as rigid as ours.

 

[Saturdaze]

What time is the hearing?

 

[marvin1991]

The TRO will be denied. The injunction in a few weeks is then more important decision, but the TRO decision today will be at least somewhat telling as to how the judge perceives TJ’s case.

Main path forward to return to action remains a dropping of charges

This. Those thinking TRO will pass are in for some disappointment. But does not mean it is done. I still think a Feb return is possible.

 

[OU_Illini]

What time is the hearing?

1:30 p.m. CT