Illinois 71, Michigan State 68 Postgame

[skyIdub]

This narrative is very tiresome. Especially this game.

An anology, if you will. When you play golf, you’re going to land in a divot now and then. Middle of the fairway. Is this “unfair?” No, it’s called “rub of the green.” It is an inevitable part of golf. It’s just like officiating. Inevitably, calls will be missed. It’s how you respond to the divot, or bad call, that shows your mettle. The successful athlete says : OK, let’s overcome it. The mediocre athlete lets it affect the future and often, loses not only that moment, but the game.

Enough with the officiating nonsense. Especially when we had a huge advantage at the line AND we won.

Sry for thread drift/rant....
One of the absolute dumbest rules of golf. If I hit a perfect drive right down the middle of the fairway there is zero chance I'm hitting out of a divot. It should be the same rule as lift clean and place during sh#t weather that affects the fairway. As far as "rub of the green", a sidehill lie, a slope in the fairway running your ball behind a dogleg or tree....I agree. Damage from another golfer/shot? Nope. Just like you can repair ball marks on the green, or take your ball out of a giant puddle of water in an unraked bunker.

/off

The officials were a minor factor in this game.

 

[Ga65]

Yeah, Luke’s defense actually really has stood out in a positive way compared to previous years

And rebounding!

 

[Roundball Sage]

The test of a team’s character shows when you are challenged at home by a highly motivated opponent... and you respond by calmly hitting your free throws at crunch time and doing whatever else is needed to secure victory. Lesser teams fold under that pressure... good teams step up and respond.

Thanks Illini, for being a good team last night. Bookmark that in your minds and do this again and again every time you are so challenged. Your opponents will become greater... as will the pressure... as will your need to step up even further.

Embrace the pressure and Thrive.

 

[Hingle McCringleberry]

We basically had a 6 man rotation today there isn't room for his minutes to go down.

Goode had 36 and Rodgers only had only 20. That is the swap that would have improved the outcome IMO in this game.

 

[and 69 others]

We need to start finding minutes for Dain and DGL just to get some breaks for our main 6. This load is not sustainable. Hopefully we have good news about TJ today.

I don’t disagree with you, but I looked at random box scores for many good teams, and it doesn’t seem like our rotations’ minutes are much higher than most (admittedly just a random sampling).

 

[ejam21]

I'm not sure how those two things are connected?

No one on this planet can eat popcorn without some of it missing their mouth. If you can.....alien.

And no one on this planet can play D1 ball without missing some contested layups haha

 

[and 69 others]

Agree with you 100. Love Harmon. Sometimes getting that speak off the bench is the boost we need.

According to the refs and Brad last night, he actually needs to cut back on the “speak.”

 

[jumpingjack]

Sry for thread drift/rant....
One of the absolute dumbest rules of golf. If I hit a perfect drive right down the middle of the fairway there is zero chance I'm hitting out of a divot. It should be the same rule as lift clean and place during sh#t weather that affects the fairway. As far as "rub of the green", a sidehill lie, a slope in the fairway running your ball behind a dogleg or tree....I agree. Damage from another golfer/shot? Nope. Just like you can repair ball marks on the green, or take your ball out of a giant puddle of water in an unraked bunker.

/off

The officials were a minor factor in this game.

Personally, I wasn't concerned about a foul discrepancy between the two teams - I was concerned somebody was gonna get decked between the extracurriculars and the jawing. It was pretty heated, as per the usual with these two teams.

 

[Rap47]

For those who never had back spasms, it is like having a knife stuck in your lower back...and left there. Sometimes any movement results in severe pain. There is much work to be done, especially if it resulted from an injury. Can take anywhere from a week to a month, even more. There are a plethora of takes concerning back spasms, but minor is not one of them.

Hansberry is the onewith back problems

 

[Rap47]

We shot 22 free throws and they shot 7. Quit whining about this fake narrative.

I believe 9 of those were from pretty obvious fouls in the last 4minutes

 

[JSpence]

I was referring to field goal attempts. Did you reference number of possessions in your original post? If so, I must've missed that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a team shoots the ball and misses, then subsequently gets an offensive rebound and shoots the ball again, don't both of those shot attempts count?

Of course, but that doesn't generate any field goal attempts beyond the difference in rebounds. I typed up a long explanation but will try and summarize instead:

Each team should have the same number of field goal attempts in each half, give or take one. This parity is affected by technical fouls, rebounds, and turnovers. If there are no technicals and no disparity in rebounds and turnovers, we would expect the same number of FGA for each game, give or take two.

The main trick - besides offensive fouls counting as turnovers - is that missed shots on defensive fouls do not count as FGA. So, with all things equal, a big difference in FGA would translate into about twice as many FTA. But that FTA number is also dependent upon and-ones, front ends, and bonus situation.

So, Izzo wants to complain about FTA disparity and posters here want to defend that. But if a team is way behind in FGA with other stats close, it's likely that they are being granted FTA on shooting fouls on misses, and those are generally deserved. That's exactly what happened in our game.

Again, people aren't arguing foul disparity. They are arguing free throw disparity. Well, when your team racks up shooting fouls and bonus fouls to extend the game, guess what you get?

 

[JSpence]

buddy will scream at the team about missin layups but he misses his mouth eating? LOL

I'm confident in Brad's ability to handle one at a time. Buddy can't be faulted when he's going 6/8 all in one go!

 

[NarrowJ]

Of course, but that doesn't generate any field goal attempts beyond the difference in rebounds. I typed up a long explanation but will try and summarize instead:

Each team should have the same number of field goal attempts in each half, give or take one. This parity is affected by technical fouls, rebounds, and turnovers. If there are no technicals and no disparity in rebounds and turnovers, we would expect the same number of FGA for each game, give or take two.

The main trick - besides offensive fouls counting as turnovers - is that missed shots on defensive fouls do not count as FGA. So, with all things equal, a big difference in FGA would translate into about twice as many FTA. But that FTA number is also dependent upon and-ones, front ends, and bonus situation.

So, Izzo wants to complain about FTA disparity and posters here want to defend that. But if a team is way behind in FGA with other stats close, it's likely that they are being granted FTA on shooting fouls on misses, and those are generally deserved. That's exactly what happened in our game.

Again, people aren't arguing foul disparity. They are arguing free throw disparity. Well, when your team racks up shooting fouls and bonus fouls to extend the game, guess what you get?

Ok, I think we mostly agree. My main point was that offensive rebounds can explain shot attempt differential just as much as turnovers do, and that we had 5 less offensive rebounds. So that also factors in to the difference in shot attempts.

 

[JSpence]

Ok, I think we mostly agree. My main point was that offensive rebounds can explain shot attempt differential just as much as turnovers do, and that we had 5 less offensive rebounds. So that also factors in to the difference in shot attempts.

Ah. Yeah. My correction is that they actually don't. A defensive rebound generates as many possessions as an offensive rebound does. You need an overall rebounding differential to get shot attempt differential.

Everyone loves ORebs because they immediately put you one up in that category with the ball by your basket. The other team can only make up for it with an offensive rebound of their own or a miss by you. If the other team happens to match your rebound total by getting more defensive rebounds, then you've probably gotten better looks, but you've gotten the same number of looks, all else being equal.

 

[TheGMan]

Sry for thread drift/rant....
One of the absolute dumbest rules of golf. If I hit a perfect drive right down the middle of the fairway there is zero chance I'm hitting out of a divot. It should be the same rule as lift clean and place during sh#t weather that affects the fairway. As far as "rub of the green", a sidehill lie, a slope in the fairway running your ball behind a dogleg or tree....I agree. Damage from another golfer/shot? Nope. Just like you can repair ball marks on the green, or take your ball out of a giant puddle of water in an unraked bunker.

/off

The officials were a minor factor in this game.

This is where you lost me.

 

[ejam21]

I'm confident in Brad's ability to handle one at a time. Buddy can't be faulted when he's going 6/8 all in one go!

HA TOUCHE!

 

[I-L-L]

According to the refs and Brad last night, he actually needs to cut back on the “speak.”

My bad...meant spark

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

I believe 9 of those were from pretty obvious fouls in the last 4minutes

Then take the 9 away and it's still 13 to 7, advantage Illinois. No matter which way you slice it, the foul stripe was the deciding factor.

 

[NarrowJ]

Ah. Yeah. My correction is that they actually don't. A defensive rebound generates as many possessions as an offensive rebound does. You need an overall rebounding differential to get shot attempt differential.

Everyone loves ORebs because they immediately put you one up in that category with the ball by your basket. The other team can only make up for it with an offensive rebound of their own or a miss by you. If the other team happens to match your rebound total by getting more defensive rebounds, then you've probably gotten better looks, but you've gotten the same number of looks, all else being equal.

Looks like total rebounds was 37-34 MSU.

It felt worse than that, but it always does as a fan, because I want us to get every single rebound.

 

[Illinirog70]

I finished watching the replay just now (with the sound off--that how I roll) And I think that is the TOUGHEST Illini I've seen in my 63 years of watching them.

Izzo is a hall of fame coach and his teams play one way -- all-out to beat you up--grabbing, blocking, elbowing, just wearing you down. And the Illini beat them at their own game. Only once in a while did the Illini settle for a long jumper and not take it inside, challeging the Spartans muscle.

Rodgers set the pace--driving, dunking, reverse lay ups, free throws when mugged. And CoHawk may have had his BEST game as an Illini.

But so MANY guys played tough--Damask, Guerrier, Goode, Harmon all kept fighting through the Spartan bullyball for tough baskets and rebounds.

A thoroughly enjoyable game and win; even Izzo couldn't whine about it.

Love, love, LOVE how they played-- after no practices, being sick all week and a tough loss to Purdue, they gave as good as they got.

Go down 8 in the second half? No problem...tough it out! Winners, all of them! The antithesis of last year's team...

Hope the guys on the bench are watching and learning-- we need several more to step up and take pressure off of the core six.

 

[hooraybeer]

we won, that's good. ILL

 

[Illini-Rule]

I finished watching the replay just now (with the sound off--that how I roll) And I think that is the TOUGHEST Illini I've seen in my 63 years of watching them.

Izzo is a hall of fame coach and his teams play one way -- all-out to beat you up--grabbing, blocking, elbowing, just wearing you down. And the Illini beat them at their own game. Only once in a while did the Illini settle for a long jumper and not take it inside, challeging the Spartans muscle.

Rodgers set the pace--driving, dunking, reverse lay ups, free throws when mugged. And CoHawk may have had his BEST game as an Illini.

But so MANY guys played tough--Damask, Guerrier, Goode, Harmon all kept fighting through the Spartan bullyball for tough baskets and rebounds.

A thoroughly enjoyable game and win; even Izzo couldn't whine about it.

Love, love, LOVE how they played-- after no practices, being sick all week and a tough loss to Purdue, they gave as good as they got.

Go down 8 in the second half? No problem...tough it out! Winners, all of them! The antithesis of last year's team...

Hope the guys on the bench are watching and learning-- we need several more to step up and take pressure off of the core six.

All that with being sick and missing three days of practice. This is a rough, resilient bunch of everyday guys. I'm honored to be a fan of this team.

 

[BalloonsTheElephant]

I'm confident in Brad's ability to handle one at a time. Buddy can't be faulted when he's going 6/8 all in one go!

As a dad, that's the only way to eat popcorn before your kids dig in and steal it all.

 

[final4illini]

Are you saying that the 13 made free throws differential weren't the difference in a 3 point game?

No MSU’s inability to stay in front of drivers and the incessant bully ball izzo insists upon and 8 of those foul shots were msu gifts with 2 minutes left in the game to stop the clock circumstances cause some gift free throws if you actually pay attention

 

[fuggles]

Ah. Yeah. My correction is that they actually don't. A defensive rebound generates as many possessions as an offensive rebound does. You need an overall rebounding differential to get shot attempt differential.

Everyone loves ORebs because they immediately put you one up in that category with the ball by your basket. The other team can only make up for it with an offensive rebound of their own or a miss by you. If the other team happens to match your rebound total by getting more defensive rebounds, then you've probably gotten better looks, but you've gotten the same number of looks, all else being equal.

This is not true. A defensive rebound changes possession but an offensive rebound does not.