Pregame: Illinois vs Chicago State, Sunday, December 29th, 1:00pm CT, BTN

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#76      
NarrowJ
Interesting sidebar discussion here.

The guy who is currently leading the NBA in 3pt makes this season is possibly one of the most jacked physical specimens I've ever seen on a basketball court in Anthony Edwards.

Also here's a good article re: the greatest shooter of all time: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...gth-fuels-stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors

These aren't outliers, the average NBA player nowadays is built like a brick shithouse. Kevin Durant is the outlier.
 
#77      
rtbritt
Vinegarben said:
I have heard the issue of weight lifting etc. affecting a players shot for many years now. It really makes sense when you think about it.
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Dang..I wish Underwood and Fletch would “think about it” then we wouldn’t have this problem. Quick, @illini0440, tell your dad!
 
#78      
OrangeBlue98
Strength and explosiveness will always be a part of sports. I'm not worried in the least about what Fletch is doing on the strength side. Strength training does not always mean bulk and tightened muscles. For sports like basketball and baseball that require more specialized movements, strength training can still allow for the mobility and flexibility needed to shoot a basketball, swing a bat, etc.

As that article about Steph Curry mentioned, he's not trying to win any powerlifting awards. Curry's strength is for him to not get knocked around the court and to help prevent injuries. Generally speaking, over Curry's long career he's had relatively few muscular injuries. His issues have been more about his ankles, which I believe was an issue even when he was at Davidson.

I trust that Fletch is doing the right things from a sports science perspective and is properly balancing strength, explosiveness, and mobility.
 
#79      
PepeSilvia
21ChampaignSt said:
That's a good point about sample size.

I don't know if bulking up too much was the cause of Dee's slump. But Dee thought so and he knew a little bit about shooting basketballs so I'm not going to dismiss it.

In general, building the wrong kind of muscle is bad for jump shooting. There's a reason you don't see many elite jump shooters who look like Shawn Kemp or Blake Griffin.

Fletcher knows this which is why I doubt BH's specific struggles are caused by lifting.
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I mean truthfully basketball(especially modern basketball) just favors fluidity and mobility more than bulk so you're just trying to get as strong as possible while maintaining that flexibility and explosiveness. I don't think anyone on the Illini is muscular enough to hamper their flexibility.

Also, Karl Malone developed a mid range game and got way better as a free throw shooter as he aged and David Robinson could shoot and they're about as muscular as basketball players come. Michael Jordan also gained weight as his career went on and developed as a shooter(also Derek Fisher). Haven't been watching a ton of other colleges yet this year but Chris Youngblood is playing for Alabama and is nearly a 40% 3pt shooter for his career and he's certainly not small.

I think Dee probably does know a thing or two about shooting basketballs but I also think athletes sometimes look for reasons for issues that have a lot simpler answers(like shot selection). Also, I just don't buy strength training killing a guys shot who is shooting everyday. The change is so gradual that you will adjust without noticing.
 
#80      
21ChampaignSt
PepeSilvia said:
I mean truthfully basketball(especially modern basketball) just favors fluidity and mobility more than bulk so you're just trying to get as strong as possible while maintaining that flexibility and explosiveness. I don't think anyone on the Illini is muscular enough to hamper their flexibility.

Also, Karl Malone developed a mid range game and got way better as a free throw shooter as he aged and David Robinson could shoot and they're about as muscular as basketball players come. Michael Jordan also gained weight as his career went on and developed as a shooter(also Derek Fisher). Haven't been watching a ton of other colleges yet this year but Chris Youngblood is playing for Alabama and is nearly a 40% 3pt shooter for his career and he's certainly not small.

I think Dee probably does know a thing or two about shooting basketballs but I also think athletes sometimes look for reasons for issues that have a lot simpler answers(like shot selection). Also, I just don't buy strength training killing a guys shot who is shooting everyday. The change is so gradual that you will adjust without noticing.
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Karl Malone and David Robinson were a combined 110 for 410 from three over 32 years. Agree to disagree.
 
#82      
BoiseBaller
What does Humrichous currently weigh? If he's gone through a "complete body transformation" since last year, he must have been stick thin before. He's not big now by any means.
 
#84      
doowink
Chad Fleck said:
I've gained 30 pounds of mostly muscle in the last 10 years, but I've played basketball 2-3 times per week for my cardio portion of exercise. I don't think my shot ever was really impacted.
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I played High school and Jr College basketball and lifted weights throughout those years….did it impact my shot??…I can tell you positively that my shot today is as bad as it was back then…
Shooting Shoot Your Shot GIF
 
#87      
PepeSilvia
Different game and 3pt shooting wasn't emphasized.

Robinson went 25/100 in his career which is pretty solid for a guy that wasn't supposed to shoot them and was a career 74% free throw shooter and had a nice mid range shot.

Karl Malone couldn't shoot early but developed a nice mid range shot and was also a career 74% free throw shooter.

You can't look at shooting percentages from back then compare them to the 90s and act like guys couldnt shoot. Even someone like Carlos Boozer was a solid shooter in his day it's just that bigs weren't supposed to shoot from further than 15 feet so they didn't develop that aspect.
 
#91      
Frumundawood
BoiseBaller said:
What does Humrichous currently weigh? If he's gone through a "complete body transformation" since last year, he must have been stick thin before. He's not big now by any means.
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Not sure he gained weight, but he got considerably more muscular/lean in a matter of months. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to entertain the idea that different players may respond in different ways to a more demanding strength and conditioning program, and it’s certainly not some indictment of what Fletch is doing. The idea was passed along by people close to the family, not some wild hair I made up on my own.
 

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#94      
OrangeBlue98
Frumundawood said:
Not sure he gained weight, but he got considerably more muscular/lean in a matter of months. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to entertain the idea that different players may respond in different ways to a more demanding strength and conditioning program, and it’s certainly not some indictment of what Fletch is doing. The idea was passed along by people close to the family, not some wild hair I made up on my own.
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But that would also positively impact his quickness and explosiveness. Given his lack of movement on defense, would the family have a comment on that?

I tend to agree that if this is Humrichous' family making these comments, that the "he's lifting too much" excuse would be a really easy one to latch onto.
 
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#95      
blackdog
Frumundawood said:
Not sure he gained weight, but he got considerably more muscular/lean in a matter of months. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to entertain the idea that different players may respond in different ways to a more demanding strength and conditioning program, and it’s certainly not some indictment of what Fletch is doing. The idea was passed along by people close to the family, not some wild hair I made up on my own.
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Family members of players can often be the first ones to grasp at reasons for why their guy isn't performing well. These guys aren't out here bulking up mirror muscles like a body builder, they are working on functional strength, mobility, flexibility, and explosiveness. Combine that with still putting up tons of shots and it just doesn't fly as a reason for poor shooting. Even more add the fact that everyone was shooting great to start the season and it looks even flimsier.
 
#97      
Guest
Do these “family members” also believe birds aren’t real?
 
#98      
sacraig
Frumundawood said:
Not sure he gained weight, but he got considerably more muscular/lean in a matter of months. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to entertain the idea that different players may respond in different ways to a more demanding strength and conditioning program, and it’s certainly not some indictment of what Fletch is doing. The idea was passed along by people close to the family, not some wild hair I made up on my own.
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People close to the family who, notably, have as much formal strength and conditioning training as we do. Which is to say, none.
 
#99      
IlliniKat91
Frumundawood said:
Not sure he gained weight, but he got considerably more muscular/lean in a matter of months. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to entertain the idea that different players may respond in different ways to a more demanding strength and conditioning program, and it’s certainly not some indictment of what Fletch is doing. The idea was passed along by people close to the family, not some wild hair I made up on my own.
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I never thought you were indicating Fletch was in the wrong.

I was saying that players (or families of players) who aren't full competing as well as they thought they would at a higher level are making tired excuses. They have all the resources a player could want available to them. Work to get better, don't have people whispering that the heavy lifting is the problem
 
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