English Premier League 2024/25

Status
Not open for further replies.
#76      
KBLEE
OrangeBlue98 said:
The old “we lost ref sucked” excuse is usually the precursor to the sack.
Click to expand...

BTW - the refs did suck. Newcastle's equalizer came off a handball that should have been disallowed. A 1-1 draw would have been equitable based on the play of both sides.

Ange isn't going anywhere. Spurs were playing their 3rd string goalkeeper with a cobbled together back line of Dragusin (3rd choice) and Archie Gray (18 year old defensive midfielder), their 3rd choice left fullback and another 18 year old center midfielder. They have been decimated by injuries and ridiculous suspensions (Bentancur - 7 games) and have still remained relatively competitive. A similar lineup with a brand new keeper making his debut beat Liverpool 1-0 yesterday in the first leg of the Carabao Cup semifinal.
 
#77      
KBLEE
Everton sack Sean Dyche
 
#78      
OrangeBlue98
KBLEE said:
BTW - the refs did suck. Newcastle's equalizer came off a handball that should have been disallowed. A 1-1 draw would have been equitable based on the play of both sides.
Click to expand...
That wasn't handling. Arm was in a natural playing position and didn't move toward the ball. The impact of the play (ball going to a Newcastle player to start an attack) has no bearing on the play.

That type of play is shown in numerous video clips in the clinics I attend regarding handling, and the answer for that play is always "no handling" for the reasons I mentioned.
 
#79      
KBLEE
OrangeBlue98 said:
That wasn't handling. Arm was in a natural playing position and didn't move toward the ball. The impact of the play (ball going to a Newcastle player to start an attack) has no bearing on the play.

That type of play is shown in numerous video clips in the clinics I attend regarding handling, and the answer for that play is always "no handling" for the reasons I mentioned.
Click to expand...

They admitted that they made the wrong call. They said after the game that VAR stuck with the refs "decision", but the ref said at halftime that he never saw it. The rules state that a goal that is the result of an advantage gained from a handball or ball hitting the hand should be disallowed.
 
#80      
OrangeBlue98
KBLEE said:
They said after the game that VAR stuck with the refs "decision", but the ref said at halftime that he never saw it. The rules state that goal that is the result of an advantage gained from a handball or ball hitting the hand should be disallowed.
Click to expand...
As a long-time soccer official, I can say with 100% certainty that this interpretation of the Laws of the Game on this particular play is incorrect.

That only applies to the following two situations.
1) Ball goes into the attacking goal directly off the hand or arm of an attacking player (including being thrown into the goal by the goalkeeper)
2) The ball hits an attacking player's hand or arm and is IMMEDIATELY (as in the next touch or two) scored through an otherwise legal means by that same player. If an "accidental handling" goes to a DIFFERENT player and is scored, that is legal even if it's the next touch.

So in this situation, neither of the two items happened, and that type of situation is the textbook example of "ball to hand" that officials should not be calling as handling. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I am speaking from a very real position of knowledge and authority as a US Soccer referee instructor and collegiate official up to the Division 1 level. It's part of my job to know this stuff backward and forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DRS
#81      
KBLEE
OrangeBlue98 said:
As a long-time soccer official, I can say with 100% certainty that this interpretation of the Laws of the Game on this particular play is incorrect.

That only applies to the following two situations.
1) Ball goes into the attacking goal directly off the hand or arm of an attacking player (including being thrown into the goal by the goalkeeper)
2) The ball hits an attacking player's hand or arm and is IMMEDIATELY (as in the next touch or two) scored through an otherwise legal means by that same player. If an "accidental handling" goes to a DIFFERENT player and is scored, that is legal even if it's the next touch.

So in this situation, neither of the two items happened, and that type of situation is the textbook example of "ball to hand" that officials should not be calling as handling. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I am speaking from a very real position of knowledge and authority as a US Soccer referee instructor and collegiate official up to the Division 1 level. It's part of my job to know this stuff backward and forward.
Click to expand...

The rules around handballs have changed multiple times in the PL over the years. Are you sure everyone is playing by the same set of rules at each level?
 
#82      
OrangeBlue98
KBLEE said:
The rules around handballs have changed multiple times in the PL over the years. Are you sure everyone is playing by the same set of rules at each level?
Click to expand...
All I can tell you is this is copied and pasted directly from Law 12:

HANDLING THE BALL

For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:

  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
  • scores in the opponents' goal:
    • directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
    • immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

If the Premier League has said they did not make the correct call, it's because their interpretation of the first two bullet points is considerably different than the interpretation of any US Soccer or collegiate officiating instruction I've ever been taught as an official or an instructor. Honestly, if we are going to call that particular play handling, then we might as well call every single instance of the ball touching the hand or arm handling. The only considerations for that play are the first two bullet points, because considerable time elapsed between the contact and the eventual goal. The part I bolded would literally be an error in Law and protestable if the officiating team would have based a decision to disallow the goal based on that part of the Law.
 
#83      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
KBLEE said:
Everton sack Sean Dyche
Click to expand...

Everton fans have been calling for it for awhile now. A lack of creativity and scoring this season (Only Southampton has scored fewer goals in PL this season) pretty much sunk his ability to keep his job. Current Everton U-18 head coach Leighton Baines and current Everton captain Seamus Coleman (who has only had 4 PL appearances this season) were the interim managers for their FA Cup match against Peterborough.

David Moyes is close to returning as the manager of the club.
 
#84      
DRS
this is the interpretation of the rule that was applied. It was the correct call. But as a Newcastle fan if that had gone the other way I would be moaning also.

Spurs did get up for that game against Newcastle, first time in a while they looked up for a defensive fight, but that was not a 50-50 game. Long stretches of the game were in favor of Newcastle and Tottenham's inability to hold a lead is alarming. Big win against Liverpool and that is the second game in a row they have been more tight at the back, could be the start of a good run of form. They have spent massively on this team and the talent is there, Ange has to find a balanced mix or they will continue to flounder. However, Like Newcastle last year they have been decimated by injuries.
 
#85      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Spurs had to go to extra time to beat Tamworth, a club from the 5th division of English football, in the FA Cup today.

Only Premier League club that has been knocked out by a lower division club thus far was Brentford losing at home on a late goal against a Plymouth Argyle club that has a good chance to be relegated from the Championship down to League One.
 
#86      
KBLEE
Just proved what everyone already knows...Spurs have no depth. They are already playing the B and C team in the league due to injuries, and Ange tried to play this one with the D team. He subbed on Son and Kulusevski to start the extra time and they scored 3 goals in 17 minutes.
 
#89      
KBLEE
This is the issue. Until Levy open his pocketbook, Spurs will have depth issues. 1000009391.jpg
 
#90      
KBLEE
Another reason so many Spurs fans are "Levy Out". He sees this as only as a business. As long as it is producing income for him, all is well.

1737381498777.png
 
#91      
wettsten
that's rough. kroenke does too but not nearly that bad.
 
#93      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Learned this weekend something about PL substitute rules I didn't know before. I knew that you could only bring on 5 substitutes on during a match but you only have 3 windows within the match to do it. The only times that don't count as those windows are substitutes at halftime and concussion substitutes.

Found out about this yesterday when Everton had to play the last 18 minutes of their match at Brighton including 8 stoppage time minutes with only 10 men after Mangala went off with an injury and Everton had already used their 3 windows to substitute players on.
 
#94      
wettsten
poor run for the spurs, decimated by injuries. how patient will levy be? still time for ange to right the ship?
 
#95      
OrangeBlue98
That's actually a worldwide FIFA rule, but it is misunderstood as you mention. I'm really surprised that we do not see more teams make at least one halftime sub. When halftime doesn't count as a sub window, I can think of any number of reasons why it would make sense to make a sub. Just one reason would be if you're trying to rotate players, you can tell a player "hey, give me all you have for 45 minutes, and then we'll give you a rest for the next game". (Yes, I know players want to play, but I would think as a manager that would strike a good balance between needing to rest a player some and letting the player know he's not coming out because he played poorly).

Making a sub at halftime would also reduce the chances of having to exhaust your sub windows so you wouldn't face what Everton faced.
 
#97      
KBLEE
Latest word is that Spurs owners, ENIC (Daniel Levy / Joe Lewis), are intentionally keeping the wage bill as low as possible as they try to attract investors to purchase some / all of the club. This is likely why the only incoming January transfer so far has been a 21 year old goal keeper, and last summer was Solanke +several youngsters. In the loss to Leicester on Sunday, they played three 18 year olds. While it is nice for them to get some experience, it is not a recipe for success in the PL.
 
#99      
wettsten
... depends on the 18 year old...

solanke and johnson seemed like pretty good business
 
#100      
the juiceman cometh
Tbf, there are basically 3 teams with the means to compete in the Süper Lig (the 3 big Istanbul teams) and one of them is a complete train wreck this season, so for Mourinho to be anywhere worse than 2nd place would be a hige disappointment. As it stands he's 6 points behind Galatasaray, who remains undefeated. Not saying he hasn't done well, but it's one of those situations where you just have to not mess it up to be where he is at.

Conversely in the Europa League, his team is 2-3-2 and sitting in 23rd place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back