Respectfully disagree … 1 second weekend in 8 years with the amount of talent we’ve had is not meeting the expectation …
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
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Respectfully disagree … 1 second weekend in 8 years with the amount of talent we’ve had is not meeting the expectation …
Hot ? Maybe not … But if no changes are made this offseason … It’ll get pretty warm …
Josh does NOT want to lose momentum … He will be proactive not reactive … Football is rolling, WBB is rolling down 3 starters, and MBB is not right now … Despite having the largest chunk of NIL … Josh is a smart guy and he’s not seeing ROI right now …
Wow, this thread. Please step back and remember we’re sick as all get out. Tomi is playing on one leg and Morez is out with a broken wrist. How quickly we give up on our coaching staff and players. Let’s see where this year takes us and what roster they put together next year.
Interesting. And I love the idea of those 3 all pushing each other to be better and not be the "weak link"Hot ? Maybe not … But if no changes are made this offseason … It’ll get pretty warm …
Josh does NOT want to lose momentum … He will be proactive not reactive … Football is rolling, WBB is rolling down 3 starters, and MBB is not right now … Despite having the largest chunk of NIL … Josh is a smart guy and he’s not seeing ROI right now …
DevILLDawg
- Meredosia, Illinois
How many second weekend appearances should a team have in a timespan that includes 3 (really 4 Big Titles, Michigan's in season was a Mickey Mouse title).
3 All-Americans..
At least 2 players have made an All-Big team every year in the 20s.
1, 3, 4, 8 seeds..
I don't know if there is a real answer, but its entirely fair to say more than 1 IMO.
I don’t think anyone’s giving up on the players …
But in the words of Shauna Green “no one gives a
if you’re sick or hurt” … Figure it out …Fact of the matter is this … Brad screwed up in recruiting so we have ZERO front court depth … Booth, Tre, Ben all missed evals … DGL should be playing over Kylan … Period … Jakstys belongs at EIU … Nothing personal against the kid but we’re at a different level as a program at this point …
And he told the Fears we don’t want you not ONCE but TWICE … I’d take both of them right now …
He let Chester and TA walk out the door and only replaced one of them … How many “top 10” programs would try and steal our assistants if they had an opening outside of Antigua ?
And let’s just call it what it is … His in game coaching is not good … It’s not been good since the mastermind that is Stephen Gentry left …
Brad said last year about a million times how much he enjoyed coaching an old team … Get old … Stay old … And he goes out and went young AGAIN …
It’s not just our guys being sick … There is a multitude of things here that are simply not good enough if we are truly a “top 10 program” IMO …
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Framing it as 1 second weekend in 8 years with the amount of talent we've had is being willfully ignorant of what this program was when he came on board. That's the point he was making and I don't see how anyone could disagree with it (with a straight face, at least).
Weird. I thought we were discussing how Illinois couldn't possibly replace Underwood with someone better, yet the data says one second-weekend appearance in eight years isn't insurmountable to achieve. And how long will the "he inherited a mess" argument hold water? Genuinely curious. We heard this stuff when Weber was struggling for years.
Well we will see what Josh Whitman thinks about the matter.
Sean Miller hasn't made an E8 in 10 years.
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
My friend who's a Xavier fan wants Miller gone. On man's trash is another man's treasure, I suppose. And vice versa.
His buyout is the balance of his contract value...mucho millions. I don't think they would let him walk
217sports
- Springfield
Hiring a guy who is in 5th in the Big East and 9th the year before that would be a major downgrade vs Brad. He is not someone who would even be in contention for us should anything happen (and most likely nothing will).
Whitman would tell you that’s not good enough … We should be competing for championships year in and year out … Regular season and NCAA Tournament … Period … We aren’t doing that this year …
No one’s talking about Sean Miller … I’ve said it on here before I’d rather have Beard than Miller …
Sean is a better coach and recruiter than Brad when given equal resources … It’s not even a conversation … And I like both of them … It ain’t nothing personal … Sean’s done more with equal resources than Brad has … It’s that simple …
Your friend thinks Xavier can do better than Sean Miller … Yikes …
I think we potentially could do better … But Xavier ??? Idk …
DevILLDawg
- Meredosia, Illinois
Are you gonna allow track record? Cause its monumental compared to Brad, overall.
Anybody can cherry pick certain years/timeframes but if you want to compare what hes working with at Xavier vs. The money, staff budget, facilities, fan base etc at Illinois it's just not fair.
Just 7 short years ago we were all excited to get Samba Kane and Anthony Higgs. I believe we are all thankful for Brad bringing us back from Dante's first level of hell. We can also say the two of three years have seen several issues with continuity of roster and staff, including losing several good pieces.
This doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. Brad can resurrect us and then also underperform two of the last three years. I'd also include the 21 Ayo team. We've not had an answer to high ball pressure on the PnR against Loyola or since.
This isn't 22/23 though. That was a bad roster and we were two heaters from not making the tournament. This roster also has some issues with inside depth and shooting, but what has brought these issues to light is the constant injuries and sicknesses. Our coaching hasn't helped us overcome these weaknesses because we don't have TJ or Domask to make a play when we need it.
This doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. Brad can resurrect us and then also underperform two of the last three years. I'd also include the 21 Ayo team. We've not had an answer to high ball pressure on the PnR against Loyola or since.
This isn't 22/23 though. That was a bad roster and we were two heaters from not making the tournament. This roster also has some issues with inside depth and shooting, but what has brought these issues to light is the constant injuries and sicknesses. Our coaching hasn't helped us overcome these weaknesses because we don't have TJ or Domask to make a play when we need it.
So we lower the expectations because we've seen how low the floor can be? March is what ultimately matters.
Illinois under Brad Underwood:
NCAA Tournament Year - Finish
2018 - No tournament
2019 - No tournament
2020 - COVID
2021 - 1 - Round of 32
2022 - 4 - Round of 32
2023 - 9 - Round of 64
2024 - 3 - Elite Eight
If you use this and expected number of wins from when we made the tournament: https://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/seedadv.html (thanks whomever did this)
2021 - 1 seed - 3.30 wins
2022 - 4 seed - 1.56 wins
2023 - 9 seed - .62 wins
2024 - 3 seed - 1.84 wins
I believe that's 7.32 wins expected in 4 tournaments and his actual is 5 wins (Rd 32 {1 win}, Rd 32 {1 win}, Rd 64 {0 wins}, Elite Eight {3 wins}). So even ignoring what he inherited and the first 3 years of his tenure, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he's underachieved in the NCAA tournament.
FWIW, I like old fiery Brad and what he's done to turn the program around is amazing. But I don't see the fire in him on the sideline and there are times where his stubbornness and resistance to in-game adjustments absolutely hurts the team.
NCAA Tournament Year - Finish
2018 - No tournament
2019 - No tournament
2020 - COVID
2021 - 1 - Round of 32
2022 - 4 - Round of 32
2023 - 9 - Round of 64
2024 - 3 - Elite Eight
If you use this and expected number of wins from when we made the tournament: https://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/seedadv.html (thanks whomever did this)
2021 - 1 seed - 3.30 wins
2022 - 4 seed - 1.56 wins
2023 - 9 seed - .62 wins
2024 - 3 seed - 1.84 wins
I believe that's 7.32 wins expected in 4 tournaments and his actual is 5 wins (Rd 32 {1 win}, Rd 32 {1 win}, Rd 64 {0 wins}, Elite Eight {3 wins}). So even ignoring what he inherited and the first 3 years of his tenure, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he's underachieved in the NCAA tournament.
FWIW, I like old fiery Brad and what he's done to turn the program around is amazing. But I don't see the fire in him on the sideline and there are times where his stubbornness and resistance to in-game adjustments absolutely hurts the team.
DevILLDawg
- Meredosia, Illinois
That's wucking fild..if Xavier is gonna get a dude with that pedigree and second weekend experience that's NOT Miller? Where are they looking?
Plus let’s not forget Sean lost 2 starters last year in July … Lost his starting big man again this year in July and lost his best player for nearly a month …
We make all the injury excuses in the world for Brad …
Great breakdown … Fantastic stuff …
I said or insinuated zilch about lowering expectations.
Is your argument that the expectation should've been that Brad made the 2nd weekend with the roster he inherited? Because that's what I was pointing out- he rebuilt this program and folks are using those rebuilding years as part of the argument against him, when in fact, that actually is supportive of what he's done.
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- Batavia
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