Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

[Jules Winnfield]

I will be proven right. Wait on it

 

[Jules Winnfield]

So for those of us keeping score at home.
You are more or less in favor of a Bruce Weber Cult over a Brad Underwood Cult?

Because you’ve got people standing by their coach now and you’re accusing them of being in a cult. I have plenty of things I’m not crazy about myself…and I get the idea that it should be university first. Good point.

But you end up undercutting your best arguments…

Maybe it’s time to just put down the keyboard and walk the Earth like Caine for a while…

I will be proven right about Underwood. I’m just hoping Josh Whitman will pull the plug and not wait too long

 

[illinitiger]

I’m waiting on Pru and his “magic button” gif

Sure...but I could use one of his Taylor RooKs diversion GIFs.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I donate my hard earned money to the NIL collective. As a frustrated Chicago Bears, Chicago Bulls and Chicago White Sox fan I don’t have tolerance for bullcrap. Enough is Enough . If someone is getting paid 4.7 million dollars a year to coach College basketball I don’t want hear any excuses. What is with the Illinois fans? I don’t get the apathy. Ohio State fan base was unhinged and ready to run Ryan Day out of town after the Michigan loss. Ryan Day whose record is 70-10 and 46-5 in big ten at Ohio State with multiple Big Ten championships and playoff appearances. Illinois apathetic fan base will take years of mediocrity from a coach and make excuses. I guess that’s why Illinois doesn’t have a National Championship in Football or Men’s Basketball

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I feel partially responsible for encouraging the fringe-siders, as I will now coin them, to spew just absolute nonsense. While I believe Brad has his weaknesses, he'd be hard to replace with someone that would be notably better than him.

When people start liking my posts and they are screaming that Bruce Weber is better than Brad Underwood, I feel I have clearly lost my way. There's nothing wrong with questioning or disagreeing with a head coach as a fan, but that is just lunacy.

Keep believing in Underachieving Underwood buddy

 

[Jules Winnfield]

When Brad Underwood goes to the Final Four and a National Championship game like Bruce Weber I will apologize to Brad for comments. Until then all the Brad is the greatest basketball coach in the History of University of Illinois people need to shut the hell up. Brad hasn’t done a damn thing at the University of Illinois that Lou Henson didn’t do, that Bill Self Didn’t do , That Bruce Weber didn’t do. It’s ALL recency bias for you Underwood sycophants.

 

[RJK01]

I agree but so do Xs and Os and Weber was better at Xs and Os than Underwood.

In comparing Oranges to Oranges, Weber with Underwood’s NIL bag (not to mention a MUCH better coaching staff of OA, Chester and GA) would have had great success. Underwood has a lot of tremendous advantages at U of I that NO previous coach has ever had.

With all that said, Weber did fail. But it was for a very specific reason. He couldn’t get players. But if he was in Underwood’s situation he would have had talent. Underwood gets talent handed to him compared to every previous U of I coach who usually had try to recruit players who were getting paid from other schools when during the periods we are discussing we refused to even have conversations about paying players.

Story from a former KSU staff member. End of Weber's first season, the star guard comes to Weber's office to get his $5000 that was promised to him by the previous head coach. Weber told him that wasn't going to happen, and he transferred out.

 

[STLini25]

Story from a former KSU staff member. End of Weber's first season, the star guard comes to Weber's office to get his $5000 that was promised to him by the previous head coach. Weber told him that wasn't going to happen, and he transferred out.

I’m sure that’s true. Weber broke no rules. The Derrick Rose and Weber conversation on the U of I campus is classic. Rose was an Illini if one thing would have happened but Weber wanted nothing to do with it. No college basketball coach was cleaner than Weber. Really probably too clean to coach at high D1. He was at a big disadvantage.

 

[Illini IndyCar Fan]

Story from a former KSU staff member. End of Weber's first season, the star guard comes to Weber's office to get his $5000 that was promised to him by the previous head coach. Weber told him that wasn't going to happen, and he transferred out.

Also fun fact, Brad was the associate head coach on that previous staff before Bruce took over at KSU.

And that guard transferred to Miami, and is not Nijel Pack.

 

[BashCtIllini]

I’m sure that’s true. Weber broke no rules. The Derrick Rose and Weber conversation on the U of I campus is classic. Rose was an Illini if one thing would have happened but Weber wanted nothing to do with it. No college basketball coach was cleaner than Weber. Really probably too clean to coach at high D1. He was at a big disadvantage.

I knew DeAaron Williams's dad. I asked him if he knew what happened with Shaun Livingston. He said yeah, when Self left, the checks stopped coming.

Put me in the camp that says Weber would have been a much better coach in the NIL days. If someone could buy him a team and just let him coach, he would have been good, which is pretty much what happened when he coached Self's players.

 

[STLini25]

I knew DeAaron Williams's dad. I asked him if he knew what happened with Shaun Livingston. He said yeah, when Self left, the checks stopped coming.

Put me in the camp that says Weber would have been a much better coach in the NIL days. If someone could buy him a team and just let him coach, he would have been good, which is pretty much what happened when he coached Self's players.

100%

 

[Illini2010-11]

Dan trying to figure out how to moderate this thread:

 

[Thaillini22]

I understand the desire to memory-hole the particulars of the Groce Era, but dear god people, you need to remember this.

I've always wanted to know what Bo Ryan said to him that one time (remember the pic of the two of them in the bowels of a stadium after a game where it looked like BR was givin' JG the ole, "You ain't gonna amount to nuthin' with that weak-sauce offense you run.")

 

[warhog6g]

It is not lunacy to think that if you gave Weber Underwood’s NIL bag that he would have equal or better results. Weber was a very good coach but failed at recruiting (in part because he refused to cheat).

Wasn't Weber the same guy who told Derrick Rose he'd have to earn his starting spot?

 

[WyattEarp]

I've always wanted to know what Bo Ryan said to him that one time (remember the pic of the two of them in the bowels of a stadium after a game where it looked like BR was givin' JG the ole, "You ain't gonna amount to nuthin' with that weak-sauce offense you run.")

lol Pretty hard to argue with that. Bo Ryan had The Swing Offense and a Continuity Ball Screen Offense that he usually ran to great success. Groce had the Weave to Nowhere Offense.

 

[Illiniguy13]

I will be proven right. Wait on it

 

[BalloonsTheElephant]

Keep believing in Underachieving Underwood buddyView attachment 40137

Read my post history. I've been as critical of Brad this season as anyone and am also firmly in the camp that 2023/24 may have been a disaster if Michigan admits TJ. Most of my issues this year are with his staff, which he he accountable for.

Yes, if Bruce just had to show up and coach, maybe he'd be a successful head coach. We will never know because his only great success was when he had five starters that went to the NBA that were recruited by someone else. I don't even want to dog on Bruce because he was a decent guy that did it the right way.

 

[STLini25]

I’ve never heard that story but I do know Derrick had no issues coming to Illinois whether he had to earn a starting spot or not. That was not a point of concern. To my understanding, Weber and Rose had one face to face conversation and it was extremely short. I don’t think that was a topic of conversation.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Reading all (most) of these posts I think one point the BU defenders on this thread are missing is that BU and his staff have the same faults they did at the beginning of his tenure; conflicts between scheme and personnel, sluggish or absent in-game adjustments, nonsensical rotations, and can’t in bound the ball in critical situations.

Yes, he’s won a lot of games. Yes, he’s only made the 2nd weekend twice in his 40 year career. Yes, he’s recruited great players and staff. Yes, he’s had abnormal turnover.

Forget all that, he’s still bad at the same things he was bad at when he was first hired. This, I think, is why some people are ready to move on. The nepotism just makes it that much worse even if Tyler isn’t the problem.

Nobody needs to read any farther than that. It should be a hard stop.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Dude, stop. You're opinion is your opinion and you have a right to it, but we were bad and just making the tournament was a success. The fact that he's elevated the program's expectations to what it is should be the end of the conversation.

 

[Grandpa]

Yeah, but Weber didn't cheat.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I’m done arguing. It’s certain factions of the Illinois fan base that have to see Illinois basketball completely devastated and have to endure a multi year rebuild before they realize Underwood is not it. I’m done . I see the hand writing on the wall but the delusional Brad sycophants will keep hope alive. If you people ran a business you would be out of business. Brad needs to run the analytics of what’s the probability is he will go to a Final Four and a NCAA championship game. I will eventually be proven right about Brad

 

[lstewart53x3]

This thread has gotten out of control crazy. Records tell the true story. Bruce couldn’t win without Self’s guys, either because he couldn’t recruit or didn’t cheat (probably a combination of both). But he was and is a good person Groce was over his head at this level, and he is also a good person. He stayed too long because of AD problems. Bruce turned us around and got us back to national relevance, but some key losses like Loyola suggest he has weaknesses at the “coaching” part of being a head coach. Add to that a lot of premature player departures and some unfortunate coaching turnovers, plus hiring his unqualified kid, and we get some concerns. His salary magnifies the problems, as does his apparent rigidity this season, when even casual fans could see that the scheme and lineup needed to be changed.

We can’t dismiss a guy off an elite 8 season, but if he can’t keep MJ, who he underutilized and may be his best returning player going forward, the seat needs to get very warm. NIL and social media have conpressed the time frame for all of this.

I L L

By this definition, there are no good college basketball coaches.

Here are the current top 5 highest paid coaches.

1. Bill Self
2. John Calipari
3. Tom Izzo
4. Bruce Pearl
5. Rick Barnes

Bill Self has losses as 3 seed to a 14 seed, a 3 seed to a 13 seed, and as a 1 seed to a 9 seed.

John Calipari has losses as 2 seed to 15 seed and a 3 seed to a 14 seed.

Tim Izzo has losses as a 2 seed to a 15 seed and a 3 seed to an 11 seed.

Bruce Pearl has losses as 2 seed to a 10 seed and a 4 seed to a 13 seed.

Rick Barnes has losses as a 3 seed to an 11 seed (Loyola), 5 seed to a 12 seed, and a 3 seed to an 11 seed (Michigan this time).

 

[the juiceman cometh]

Put me in the camp that says Weber would have been a much better coach in the NIL days. If someone could buy him a team and just let him coach, he would have been good, which is pretty much what happened when he coached Self's players.

I don't think it's quite that easy. It's still recruiting, just the money conversations are a part of it now. Honestly, Weber probably would have been in the first wave of these Jay Wright/Tony Bennett types that were never comfortable with NIL and just retired.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

If Rick Pitino was the University of Illinois head Basketball Coach instead of Brad Underwood. Illinois would be fighting for a Big Ten championship and no lower than a 4 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Underwood is not it, but keep believing