Chicago Cubs 2025

[jsmoke2215]

Not saying Turner should be hitting 3rd, but he is nowhere close to being the worst hitter in MLB on the year. Joc Pederson is 3 for 55 on the season and 0 for his last 41.

I think I'd rather have Joc though.

A pathetic strikeout and a sloppy flop pop up to right field with 2 runners on for Turner so far. Shocking.

 

[bdutts]

Hoyer could win Executive of the Year after a 92-95 win season and a minimum of the NLCS. The man has completely rebuilt the farm system from the Theo disaster. The BP is better than last year at this time. Tucker will be signed. Shaw will be back up shortly. Hoyer needs to be extended.

Jed has some amount of culpability in destroying the farm system, as he was Theo's right-hand man when Theo was with the Cubs. Theo wasn't making decisions in a vacuum without any input from anyone else, especially Jed. So, Jed was part of the problem, too. How much, I don't know.

You are correct in that the farm system is rebuilt but he had to fix is own mistakes (at least partly his mistakes). He does get high marks for that. Let's see how this season plays out, and of course, the offseason.

 

[jsmoke2215]

Jon Berti's at bat in the bottom of the 8th, yuck!

Let's hope *Hodge* shuts the door without the insurance run.

 

[bdutts]

Nice bullpen game today! Three innings, 1 hit and no walks. I’m digging that!

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Nice bullpen game today! Three innings, 1 hit and no walks. I’m digging that!

Throwing strikes is a beautiful thing!

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

If you are going to take shots at Hoyer, you should acknowledge him trading Javy Baez’ corpse and Trevor Williams for the most exciting player in baseball.

 

[Chuck Nuggets]

The Chicago Cubs are legit good.

Imagine if they were able to sign Bregman.

 

[jsmoke2215]

If you are going to take shots at Hoyer, you should acknowledge him trading Javy Baez’ corpse and Trevor Williams for the most exciting player in baseball.

Here are the list of names he acquired that year dismantling that team:

Kevin Alcantara
Alexander Vizcaino
PCA
Alexander Canario
Caleb Killian
Nick Madrigal
Codi Heuer
Anderson Espinoza
Greg Deichmann
Daniel Palencia
Bryce Ball

That was the haul for:

Joc Pederson
Javy Baez
Craig Kimbrel
Ryan Tepera
Jake Marisnack
Anthony Rizzo
Kris Bryant
Andrew Chafin

I think we can rest easy if we fire Hoyer that we're not getting rid of a trading genius.

 

[myspace]

Suck it, Dodgers.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

If you are going to take shots at Hoyer, you should acknowledge him trading Javy Baez’ corpse and Trevor Williams for the most exciting player in baseball.

Pretty sure that Epstein guided the trade after Baez told them to buzz off on an extension. However, your point is valid. He's made he share of solid moves, but the outcome of this Tucker trade will be his legacy. Unfortunately, his legacy is in Rickett's' hands.

 

[Lee]

 

[bdutts]

Ultimately, this is the key to his future.

If they don't resign him, they will have given up not one, but TWO third basemen and will have left a glaring hole at the position during a season where he went "all in". 3rd base is a power position and one where you need to carry an above average glove. Because the ball gets on you so quickly, you don't need to be a magician. The position, on a really good team, demands 20+ home runs(minimum) and a dependable glove(at minimum). I, personally, don't think Shaw is ready, but Hoyer is "hoping" he will be. Hope isn't a plan.

If Tucker signs, acquiring a superstar takes assets and any issues with the trade will be squashed. It's a winning trade. That said, unless the owner guarantees you that he's dedicated to bringing him back....you don't make the move. The Cubs have not committed to a contract over 200M.....ever. Tucker's deal is going to be close to a 500M number.

Do we really think Ricketts is going to take that leap? The Cubs are just one of his many business units and he's managing to the bottom line. He's gone on record as saying he doesn't make money on the Cubs piece of his portfolio. He complains about the upkeep that Wrigley takes during every winter meeting with the media. He won't go over that tax threshold and he's already planning on a 2027 lockout, meaning he wants a clean balance sheet if/when it starts. A 500M liability doesn't provide that.

Unfortunately, that all comes back to the GM. He knows the cards he has to play with.

Now, the bullpen. This post is way too long already, so we'll just let the bullpen's performance speak for itself. He didn't address it properly in the off-season, but again.....this could be more of a byproduct of a Ricketts monetary cutoff.

We'll see what happens. There are still 137 games to play. A lot can change. Shaw can come up, hit .275 with 20 HR's and Counsell could find the perfect mix in the pen. If that happens and they resign Tucker.....extend Hoyer.

If not and this ends up an 81-81 season and they're trying to replace 40 home runs, 115 RBIs and starting over with the pen.....see ya.

This is the reality of it. Nice summation. Unfortunately, we Cubs fans will have to deal with the fact that Ricketts isn't going to spend like the Dodgers.

 

[champaignchris]

This is the reality of it. Nice summation. Unfortunately, we Cubs fans will have to deal with the fact that Ricketts isn't going to spend like the Dodgers.

I don’t even need him to spend like the Dodgers. I’d settle for not cutting payroll by $35 million after missing the playoffs by a game two seasons in a row.

 

[bdutts]

I don’t even need him to spend like the Dodgers. I’d settle for not cutting payroll by $35 million after missing the playoffs by a game two seasons in a row.

I should have said that he’ll spend up to the tax line and once in a while go over it. That’s the reality we face.

 

[Warren Carter Fanclub]

Cubs #3 in revenue and #14 in payroll

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Ultimately, this is the key to his future.

If they don't resign him, they will have given up not one, but TWO third basemen and will have left a glaring hole at the position during a season where he went "all in". 3rd base is a power position and one where you need to carry an above average glove. Because the ball gets on you so quickly, you don't need to be a magician. The position, on a really good team, demands 20+ home runs(minimum) and a dependable glove(at minimum). I, personally, don't think Shaw is ready, but Hoyer is "hoping" he will be. Hope isn't a plan.

If Tucker signs, acquiring a superstar takes assets and any issues with the trade will be squashed. It's a winning trade. That said, unless the owner guarantees you that he's dedicated to bringing him back....you don't make the move. The Cubs have not committed to a contract over 200M.....ever. Tucker's deal is going to be close to a 500M number.

Do we really think Ricketts is going to take that leap? The Cubs are just one of his many business units and he's managing to the bottom line. He's gone on record as saying he doesn't make money on the Cubs piece of his portfolio. He complains about the upkeep that Wrigley takes during every winter meeting with the media. He won't go over that tax threshold and he's already planning on a 2027 lockout, meaning he wants a clean balance sheet if/when it starts. A 500M liability doesn't provide that.

Unfortunately, that all comes back to the GM. He knows the cards he has to play with.

Now, the bullpen. This post is way too long already, so we'll just let the bullpen's performance speak for itself. He didn't address it properly in the off-season, but again.....this could be more of a byproduct of a Ricketts monetary cutoff.

We'll see what happens. There are still 137 games to play. A lot can change. Shaw can come up, hit .275 with 20 HR's and Counsell could find the perfect mix in the pen. If that happens and they resign Tucker.....extend Hoyer.

If not and this ends up an 81-81 season and they're trying to replace 40 home runs, 115 RBIs and starting over with the pen.....see ya.

Not sure of your definition of a “really good team” is, but I believe 3 of the division winners last year — Yankees, Phillies and Brewers — didn’t have a third baseman hit 20+ home runs (minimum). Actually either did the Dodgers, but that is because Muncy was hurt. Not sure if any of those teams got 20+ HRs out of the position cumulatively (guessing Dodgers did at least).

Sure third base is traditionally a power position, but plenty of ways to assemble a team. Heck, while the guy everyone wanted meets your HR minimum requirement, Bregman isn’t near the traditional big power hitting 3B. Outside of two early seasons of 31 and 41 HRs, he’s only averaged 25 in the 3 full seasons he’s had since then.

I’m not sure what you mean by given up TWO third basemen. Do you mean Paredes and Cam Smith? Very few fans if any had qualms about giving up Paredes and based on his time as a Cub, he likely wouldn’t have hit your 20+ HR minimum. And he’s not an above average glove. Smith had a real nice spring, but isn’t exactly burning things up. Yes, he’s doing better than Shaw did.

Cubs gave up some decent players, one of which might end up being more than that. Would you rather have Hoyer not made the trade? Cubs would likely be mediocre at best without Tucker. Yes, we need Cubs to sign him, but after seeing his impact on this team I’ve come around to believing the trade was worth it even if they don’t re-sign him. To win, you need difference makers. Tucker is one and none of the players Cubs gave up to get him are. Smith might be one in the future, but we’re not talking about a can’t miss star in him. Would you have rather Cubs didn’t give up Gleyber Torres for less than a season of Aroldis Chapman — and a World Series championship? Torres was a top 25 overall prospect. Smith was outside top 50.

Third base is absolutely a problem. Hopefully, they can plug the hole. Maybe Shaw is able to help in second half of season. Maybe they trade for someone sooner than later. But I think they should have have made the Tucker trade whether they re-sign him or not. And while I’m not pro-Hoyer, him not re-signing Tucker is not grounds for firing him — that is on ownership. One can find plenty of other reasons to fire him, but I don’t put making the Tucker trade or not re-signing him should they not to do so on the list.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Cubs #3 in revenue and #14 in payroll
View attachment 41899

One thing I wonder about is whether the economics of the Marquee Network are so catastrophically bad that these estimates are inaccurate.

Not sure of your definition of a “really good team” is, but I believe 3 of the division winners last year — Yankees, Phillies and Brewers — didn’t have a third baseman hit 20+ home runs (minimum). Actually either did the Dodgers, but that is because Muncy was hurt. Not sure if any of those teams got 20+ HRs out of the position cumulatively (guessing Dodgers did at least).

Sure third base is traditionally a power position, but plenty of ways to assemble a team. Heck, while the guy everyone wanted meets your HR minimum requirement, Bregman isn’t near the traditional big power hitting 3B. Outside of two early seasons of 31 and 41 HRs, he’s only averaged 25 in the 3 full seasons he’s had since then.

I’m not sure what you mean by given up TWO third basemen. Do you mean Paredes and Cam Smith? Very few fans if any had qualms about giving up Paredes and based on his time as a Cub, he likely wouldn’t have hit your 20+ HR minimum. And he’s not an above average glove. Smith had a real nice spring, but isn’t exactly burning things up. Yes, he’s doing better than Shaw did.

Cubs gave up some decent players, one of which might end up being more than that. Would you rather have Hoyer not made the trade? Cubs would likely be mediocre at best without Tucker. Yes, we need Cubs to sign him, but after seeing his impact on this team I’ve come around to believing the trade was worth it even if they don’t re-sign him. To win, you need difference makers. Tucker is one and none of the players Cubs gave up to get him are. Smith might be one in the future, but we’re not talking about a can’t miss star in him. Would you have rather Cubs didn’t give up Gleyber Torres for less than a season of Aroldis Chapman — and a World Series championship? Torres was a top 25 overall prospect. Smith was outside top 50.

Third base is absolutely a problem. Hopefully, they can plug the hole. Maybe Shaw is able to help in second half of season. Maybe they trade for someone sooner than later. But I think they should have have made the Tucker trade whether they re-sign him or not. And while I’m not pro-Hoyer, him not re-signing Tucker is not grounds for firing him — that is on ownership. One can find plenty of other reasons to fire him, but I don’t put making the Tucker trade or not re-signing him should they not to do so on the list.

It's pretty cut-and-dried. If Tucker is in Chicago long term that deal is worthwhile, but if he's not then that means the Cubs will NEVER be a buyer of elite talent at market prices, and as such assets like Cam Smith are essential in a Moneyball sense.

A small market team shouldn't make a deal like that. Are the Cubs a small market team? It all hinges on one negotiation this offseason.

 

[Grandpa]

If the Cubs finish a game behind the Brewers, miss the wildcard, and don't resign Tucker, it was a bad deal.

 

[Homecoming 2019]

One thing I wonder about is whether the economics of the Marquee Network are so catastrophically bad that these estimates are inaccurate.


It's pretty cut-and-dried. If Tucker is in Chicago long term that deal is worthwhile, but if he's not then that means the Cubs will NEVER be a buyer of elite talent at market prices, and as such assets like Cam Smith are essential in a Moneyball sense.

A small market team shouldn't make a deal like that. Are the Cubs a small market team? It all hinges on one negotiation this offseason.

The deal should only be evaluated as a 1 year rental regardless if he extends with the Cubs. We are no more likely to extend now than we would have been to sign him as a free agent. He didn't choose to be here so we have no reason to beleive he would want to stay.

 

[ChiefGritty]

The deal should only be evaluated as a 1 year rental regardless if he extends with the Cubs. We are no more likely to extend now than we would have been to sign him as a free agent. He didn't choose to be here so we have no reason to beleive he would want to stay.

I take the point, and you're right in terms of calculating the value of Tucker in the deal, but the value of the return package, especially someone like Cam Smith, does in fact depend on whether the Cubs are ever going to be a meaningful player in elite free agency.

You can't trade prospects for star rentals in perpetuity. You'll have to build a team of Cam Smith's the way the Pirates or Orioles do if you aren't going to act like a big market team.

So it all funnels back to the same question of why aren't the Cubs acting like a big market team?

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

Not sure of your definition of a “really good team” is, but I believe 3 of the division winners last year — Yankees, Phillies and Brewers — didn’t have a third baseman hit 20+ home runs (minimum). Actually either did the Dodgers, but that is because Muncy was hurt. Not sure if any of those teams got 20+ HRs out of the position cumulatively (guessing Dodgers did at least).

Sure third base is traditionally a power position, but plenty of ways to assemble a team. Heck, while the guy everyone wanted meets your HR minimum requirement, Bregman isn’t near the traditional big power hitting 3B. Outside of two early seasons of 31 and 41 HRs, he’s only averaged 25 in the 3 full seasons he’s had since then.

I’m not sure what you mean by given up TWO third basemen. Do you mean Paredes and Cam Smith? Very few fans if any had qualms about giving up Paredes and based on his time as a Cub, he likely wouldn’t have hit your 20+ HR minimum. And he’s not an above average glove. Smith had a real nice spring, but isn’t exactly burning things up. Yes, he’s doing better than Shaw did.

Cubs gave up some decent players, one of which might end up being more than that. Would you rather have Hoyer not made the trade? Cubs would likely be mediocre at best without Tucker. Yes, we need Cubs to sign him, but after seeing his impact on this team I’ve come around to believing the trade was worth it even if they don’t re-sign him. To win, you need difference makers. Tucker is one and none of the players Cubs gave up to get him are. Smith might be one in the future, but we’re not talking about a can’t miss star in him. Would you have rather Cubs didn’t give up Gleyber Torres for less than a season of Aroldis Chapman — and a World Series championship? Torres was a top 25 overall prospect. Smith was outside top 50.

Third base is absolutely a problem. Hopefully, they can plug the hole. Maybe Shaw is able to help in second half of season. Maybe they trade for someone sooner than later. But I think they should have have made the Tucker trade whether they re-sign him or not. And while I’m not pro-Hoyer, him not re-signing Tucker is not grounds for firing him — that is on ownership. One can find plenty of other reasons to fire him, but I don’t put making the Tucker trade or not re-signing him should they not to do so on the list.

If they don't re-sign Tucker, if Shaw ends up a bust(HUGE if) and Smith or Paredes pans out to be a long term starter and quality player(Smith can be a star)....it's going to be just a terrible look.

What makes it worse is that the Cubs have no other answers. Watching Berti, Brujan, Workman(they sent him packing) out there, 1)it's like having an old school pitcher's spot hitting 9th and 2)the defense has cost them games.

I was listening to "The Score" yesterday between meetings and they had Hoyer on. He made the comment that they're "hoping" that Shaw will be the answer. Someone clapped back that "hope" isn't a plan. Bringing in Nicki Lopez as 3rd baseman #4 in less than 26 games isn't a plan. They put all of their eggs in a rookie's basket.

Again, if they have Tucker for the next 8-10 years and he's a perennial All Star, it's a great trade. Nobody can dispute that and I'll eat 8 years of crow.....happily.

I don't understand the move, whatsoever, unless they had an agreement to extend. Maybe that's the case. If they're going to use terms like "we're going for it in 2025", how in the world do you leave third base in the hands of a rookie with not one major league AB and no real upgrades in the pen or in the rotation?

My aggravation comes in April and it's directed at Hoyer, but I do understand that Ricketts is ultimately the key. If the GM can't trust the owner to support his work....that counts for something.

 

[Homecoming 2019]

I take the point, and you're right in terms of calculating the value of Tucker in the deal, but the value of the return package, especially someone like Cam Smith, does in fact depend on whether the Cubs are ever going to be a meaningful player in elite free agency.

You can't trade prospects for star rentals in perpetuity. You'll have to build a team of Cam Smith's the way the Pirates or Orioles do if you aren't going to act like a big market team.

So it all funnels back to the same question of why aren't the Cubs acting like a big market team?

Making the playoffs this season is the deciding factor here. If we have to trade away a top 10 prospect in our system every year to make the playoffs, then so be it. Prospects are overrated anyway.

As to why the cubs aren't spending, I have no clue other than a need to be profitable and understanding wrigley will be full regardless of the teams quality.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

Anyone else notice how badly Bellinger is performing in NY? He appears to have re-discovered the form that got him booted from LA.

 

[Gary J]

PCA is becoming a star. Could be a 30 HR 30 SB player soon. Maybe this year!

 

[ChiefGritty]

If we have to trade away a top 10 prospect in our system every year to make the playoffs, then so be it. Prospects are overrated anyway.

Trading a top 50 guy like Smith for a one-year rental of a guy like Tucker is not something that's always going to be available for one thing, and then for another it doesn't scale, you run out of farm very fast doing that.

Everything about the long-term health of the franchise hinges on the Tucker extension. That's overwrought but sometimes reality is overwrought.

There is simply no excuse for Renovated Wrigley Field's Chicago Cubs not being the highest bidder on this player. If not now it's never.