Big Jack
- Decatur
I honestly believe Groce is very happy right where he is at and knows no amount of money will help him revive that program right now. By time this is all said and done KState would be better off getting Tyler
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
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IlliniwekKDR
- Colorado Springs, CO
Kansas St AD on the phone with their attorneys right now
The past three years say not particularly. Finished 9th in conference two years in a row and now tied for last, so what is that, tied for 15th. I’m sure the coaching community will echo some of the things we see in here — he’s a good coach, K-State is a bad job, he’s just holding his kids accountable. He’s likely not as bad a coach as it appears by his record. But I’d like a head coach that isn’t under .500 overall for past two plus years and 18-31 in conference over that same span who is working on holding himself accountable rather than little rants to throw it all on the players. I wonder what Tang’s response would be if one of his players during a press conference said something like, “well he’s 1-11 in conference, how good a job do you think he’s doing? I don’t know his contract situation, but does anyone think he should be back unless it is because of financial reasons.” Or better yet, the AD doing that — you know, holding the coach accountable. Something Tang seems unable to do himself.
I think saying his players were an embarrassment and none of them would be back next year and that he would wear a bag over head also is pretty bad. That’s something you say in the lockerroom not in your postgame interview.
I’d call his rant half-a$$ed, which is also how I would categorize his coaching last 3 years too.
I recall Tang promised K State fans a parade. Not sure he planned on it including pitchforks, tar and feathers. If you over-promise you've set your own booby trap. When you demean not just the play but also the character of the players you recruited, why would recruits who have plenty of other options want to play for someone they cannot trust to have their backs? A good leadership lesson is to praise in public and criticize in private, one on one.
I wonder how Coleman Hawkins would compare Jerome Tang to Brad Underwood? That would be an interesting take since he had experiences with both. I think Tang struck lightning in a bottle in his first season and once he recruited his own group, he just couldn't sustain any of that momentum from the first season. It seems like he is a players' coach from the outside looking in but it's possible he just didn't have the intangibles to coach at this high of a level. Maybe, he would've been better served starting out at a lower level like the AAC or MWC or A-10. Maybe just too big of a jump too soon.
I thought his comments were a bit excessive, clearly showing his frustrations with how the season was going but he recruited them and the responsibility lies solely with him. If he didn't vet their competitive toughness and ability to overcome resiliency, then that is all on him. He also didn't recruit a lot of winning players so that says something as well. I think Haggerty and maybe Nate Johnson(Akron) were the only guys he brought in that came from programs with winning going on. So, I think it speaks to his inability to recruit the right type of guys. He brought in headcases like Dug McDaniel and Naequan Tomlin in past seasons so that speaks volumes that he might not be the best judge of character and maybe was going for potential over character in some cases
I thought his comments were a bit excessive, clearly showing his frustrations with how the season was going but he recruited them and the responsibility lies solely with him. If he didn't vet their competitive toughness and ability to overcome resiliency, then that is all on him. He also didn't recruit a lot of winning players so that says something as well. I think Haggerty and maybe Nate Johnson(Akron) were the only guys he brought in that came from programs with winning going on. So, I think it speaks to his inability to recruit the right type of guys. He brought in headcases like Dug McDaniel and Naequan Tomlin in past seasons so that speaks volumes that he might not be the best judge of character and maybe was going for potential over character in some cases
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Yes, but if he didn’t throw the players under the bus publicly, he risks people not realizing that it isn’t his fault that the team he recruited and coaches is terrible. Can’t have that.
They’re going to take a run at his brother …
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
At this point in time, any good agent will look to strike the general “bring the university into disrepute” and put more specific language into contracts. It’s clear that ADs will use that language to point toward a lot of weak or unclear items to justify a for-cause firing.
I absolutely agree that a Mel Tucker scandal or NCAA trouble (Justin Fuentes at Tennessee) are cases where for-cause is justified. Not sure what Tang did meets that level, but K State will clearly try to at least negotiate the buyout down.
I absolutely agree that a Mel Tucker scandal or NCAA trouble (Justin Fuentes at Tennessee) are cases where for-cause is justified. Not sure what Tang did meets that level, but K State will clearly try to at least negotiate the buyout down.
Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
Ed Cooley will probably be available
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
Those wheels were wobbly starting in year two and were shaking in their axels in year three before flying off in year four. The guy comes across as a goofball and it showed more often than not on the court.
He deserved to be fired, just not for “cause.”
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ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
EDIT: This is a better way to display it
Record against ranked teams since 2022-23
Tang: 16-22
Underwood: 17-21
Record against unranked teams since 2022-23
Tang: 55-35
Underwood: 75-19
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He is 45-47 (under .500) overall his past 3 seasons
Missing 3 tournaments in a row
Only won 20 games 1 out of 4 seasons
Just funny the overall pulse this board seems to have for other coaches versus what Brad has done here
I see he does have 16 wins vs top 25 to Brad's 15 wins vs top 25
But seriously, whoopty doo... Don't fans want to actually make the tournament?
Unsure if they were even good enough to make the NIT the last couple seasons
Tang must have an extremely poor record against unranked teams
The irresistible urge to taint Brad is so comical.
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Here's the problem with what you just said. You said we should want to make the tourney, but the second fans have higher standards(like we should be able to make deep runs in the tourney and not get bounced by lower seeds), we get push back.
The original poster gave practically zero context. He used one bad season in the best conference in the country to write him off as "not a good coach". But when you start looking into what hes accomplished at a far inferior program, to go .500 into this year in that conference and all those ranked wins and an elite 8 to add to it, we can't ignore that when we want to evaluate him.
It doesn't have to be "tainting" one guy to acknowledge another coach's accomplishments. This IS an Illini board and we've considered Brad's time here pretty successful, so if Tang can hang with Brad in those areas, just proves hes definitely got some coaching ability. Question is how does he maintain the culture.
Uh, respectully, what?
This is his second overall losing season in a row, and he hasn't had a winning conference record since his first season. This would have been his 3rd straight season not making the tourney if he'd been allowed to play it out.
And on the top-10 wins thing - talk about a stat that doesn't tell you anything. Last season he had the same number of top-10 wins as Brad, but also he went 16-17. He lost at home to an Arizona St. team that went 4-16 in conference. So how much stock should we put in his win over #3 Iowa St. (a team that ended up well outside the top-10 anyway, another reason this stat is relatively meaningless)? I would say none at all.
Trajectory is really important. If you flipped his trajectory, then he'd be getting a fat extension right now.The fact is every single season, he has won fewer games, and has lost more games, than the previous season. That is everything you need to know about whether his tenure at K-State, the only place he's been a head coach, has been a success.
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So your logic here is that push back is warranted if you don’t make deep runs in the tourney, but is unwarranted if you can’t even make the NIT?
It isn’t one bad season, it’s three (consecutive) ones.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
With the struggles Scott Drew has been having at Baylor over the same time period, it does just seem like something about his and Tang's methods aren't translating to the new CBB world.
It absolutely is warranted. That was my point. People's logic doesn't make sense. The minute we start setting higher standards for where our own program can go certain posters push back and tell us to be happy with what we have. Brad's goal is a natty and he made that clear. Im not sure what people expected of Tang at KSU. They arent in the same stratosphere as U of I when it comes to basketball programs. I wouldnt consider going 9-11 or 8-10 in the BIG 12 a bad coaching job. This year he just couldn't keep it together. The BIG 12 is a grinder and KSU isn't set up to compete with the Arizonas, Houston or Kansas'.
You directly compared him to Tang - so the pushback was directly in regard to Tang.
Going off on a whole second weekend TANGent for Illinois has very little to do with Tang being pretty horrible the past 3 years.
Tang is probably a good MM coach and a great assistant at HM level. He’s a good dude…my wife went to Baylor and he was on their staff forever. Wouldn’t mind seeing him go back as an assistant to Baylor…they need the help.
Which BTW should give us even more appreciation for BU when looking at Baylor’s recent downward trend. Going from Natty to bubble team at best in less than 5 years.
Which BTW should give us even more appreciation for BU when looking at Baylor’s recent downward trend. Going from Natty to bubble team at best in less than 5 years.
I think he’d struggle at a mid major. He’s always been a good recruiter but this is his only head coaching job ever. It would need to be a mid major like Dayton where they clearly are running first in the conference in NIL.
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