Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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My opinion is that recruiting websites' job is to sell clicks. I expect top programs to have better resources and talent evaluators, and I think the recruiting websites are mostly reacting (like dropping a guy who signs with us) and/or parroting what they hear. So I think it's more embarrassing for other programs than these websites (meaning I agree with your bolded statement, just that I don't consider media to be scouts).
And was Keaton (or at least his family) not considering redshirting?
Wagler's neglection should be no surprise to anyone. Humans are basically inclined to take the easy path most of the time...especially when others have evaluated that path for them. Head coaches are pretty busy trying to fill their rosters and do not look at every player who ever played varsity HS basketball. Unless they have extensive interviews with every prospect, they have little to no idea what rests in their character and what passions drive them to excel.
A guy who was a good friend of mine was a consensus All-State selection in Illinois and a honorable mention All-American basketball player. But he decided to pursiue golf in college with the dream of winning both the conference title (the top golf conference in the nation during his years of play) and the NCAA title as a senior. But not a single school wanted him to come play golf for them...so he walked-on. He did win that conference title, but failed to win the NCAA title...but he did finish second...twice.
The point is that BU seems to be more willing than most coaches to delve a bit deeper to find the EDG, kids that want to fit in an elite group, develop the skills to help the team win, do the little things, and trust their future to a staff that cares. Not saying that is truly the case, but all indications are that he has an elite eye for finding and developing players who fit his system and are not me first. I, for one, like that. And all indications are that it works just fine.
A guy who was a good friend of mine was a consensus All-State selection in Illinois and a honorable mention All-American basketball player. But he decided to pursiue golf in college with the dream of winning both the conference title (the top golf conference in the nation during his years of play) and the NCAA title as a senior. But not a single school wanted him to come play golf for them...so he walked-on. He did win that conference title, but failed to win the NCAA title...but he did finish second...twice.
The point is that BU seems to be more willing than most coaches to delve a bit deeper to find the EDG, kids that want to fit in an elite group, develop the skills to help the team win, do the little things, and trust their future to a staff that cares. Not saying that is truly the case, but all indications are that he has an elite eye for finding and developing players who fit his system and are not me first. I, for one, like that. And all indications are that it works just fine.
We may be now living in the days of the Illini bump…
A free pass from what? What's the penalty?
We literally have people celebrating three of our incoming freshmen getting major bumps by these same services.
Scouts, regardless of sport and regardless of level, see hundreds upon hundreds of players each year. Yes, the AAU Circuit and the various All Star events, where a thousand kids are whittled down to 50 makes a difference. Those kids put themselves in a spotlight. Coleman got his bump because he participated in these events and excelled. Is he a better player now than he was a month ago when he was a four star recruit? I sincerely doubt it.
The situation with Keaton will never happen again. Recruiting services whiffed, scouts whiffed, entire coaching staff's whiffed.....the ONLY ones on the planet that didn't miss are DePaul, Minnesota and Illinois.
If ANYONE should be roasted, it's the entire Kansas and Missouri staffs. The kid was right under their noses. How much effort would it have taken for one assistant, literally one, to hop in a car and hit a gym?
I have no clue why Keaton decided to stay low key with regards to marketing himself. I'm sure he has good reasons.
It worked out for him, but in reality.....he is Tyler Underwood away from being the best player at DePaul, tearing it up, and being a portal transfer playing his sophomore year this upcoming year.
The closest comp that we have to anything like this happening would be Steph Curry ending up at Davidson. How could Duke and UNC miss that one? The kid's dad was one of the best shooters on the planet and he played with Charlotte in the NBA.
As much as we dislike the sliminess that comes with AAU and shoes......not being a part of that could have costed Keaton millions.
Nobody, including our staff, saw this coming when we took him on. Did he have great potential and a lot of tools to work with and develop? Absolutely. Did they think he'd be a flippin' lottery pick when he signed? Heck, did they think that he'd EVER sniff the NBA when he signed? Probably not.
Let's take it one final step further. Does Drej transfer here if he knew that Keaton would be THE ball dominant player on the roster? Would Kylan have transferred away?
Let's give Tyler, MN and DePaul all of the credit in the world versus tearing down the entire system.
Agreed about the clicks. Coleman got bumped to a 5 star, it got posted here in celebratory manner and I'm sure it generated a ton of clicks.
These services are money machines and we all buy in.
The big issue is that even scouts/websites that make an honest effort to actually evaluate prospects and then rank them can't see every basketball player in the country. They end up focusing on the big AAU tournaments where they can see a ton of players at the same time/place. Wagler didn't play on an AAU team affiliated with the shoe companies, so he didn't play in many of those tournaments, so they just didn't see him play. Scouts don't base as much on high school play because the talent levels can be so uneven.
...and I get how this discussion about Wagler's recruiting can trigger some strong opinions. To say nobody could have possibly seen his potential makes it sound like we just got lucky.
I think the truth is likely some of both- we probably got lucky that we even stumbled upon him in the first place and gave his film a serious look, then applied some good talent evaluation (especially regarding the type of player we want), then got lucky that he turned out to be even better than we imagined, then we did a really good job at developing him and our offense around him.
I don't expect a repeat of that extreme upside in many/any of our recruits going forward. And that's just fine if we can grow our resources and reputation and get some upside from some recruits/transfers on a regular basis (while putting together and coaching up players who fit well).
In other words, getting modest upside from #10-30 recruits/transfers is a better long-term plan than thinking we have some exceptional ability to find stars who everyone else overlooks.
I think the truth is likely some of both- we probably got lucky that we even stumbled upon him in the first place and gave his film a serious look, then applied some good talent evaluation (especially regarding the type of player we want), then got lucky that he turned out to be even better than we imagined, then we did a really good job at developing him and our offense around him.
I don't expect a repeat of that extreme upside in many/any of our recruits going forward. And that's just fine if we can grow our resources and reputation and get some upside from some recruits/transfers on a regular basis (while putting together and coaching up players who fit well).
In other words, getting modest upside from #10-30 recruits/transfers is a better long-term plan than thinking we have some exceptional ability to find stars who everyone else overlooks.
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Joel Goodson
- it's all ball bearings, nowadays
don't quit your day job
Exactly. Whittling ANYTHING from 1,000+ down to 25, with any sort of legitimate accuracy is impossible, especially in a line of work where physically maturity of the subjects isn't complete.
The best that they can do is get everyone in one place, then compare, contrast, take notes and come up with something close to accurate. If you remove yourself from that one place.....you're not putting anything out there to compare.
Heck, the NBA Combine does exactly that and they STILL screw it up! They're only looking at 70 guys, who all have tape and who all are doing the same exact drills in a 100% controlled environment.
I vividly remember DJ Williams and Aaron Jordan having a photo together on the football field in chairs sitting in front of a final four trophy. I remember thinking that would be a possibility. How far we have come in our mentality about the program and how real it is now that we can have that expectation. Little did I realize how far off we were at the time.
This. There are just too many players to legimately rank them. It's not too hard to see say a Lebron and recognize that there're elite, but after those obvious types it's almost impossible.
DReq
Always Illini
- Central Illinois
Too late. Already did. P.S. Not for comedy.
hooraybeer
- Peoria, IL
congrats
Freaking stud!
Quentin Coleman, The Principia School , Shooting Guard
Quentin Coleman is a 6-4, 180-pound Shooting Guard from Saint Louis, MO.247sports.com
And there it is. You could see it coming with how the 247 guys raved about him on podcasts.
I absolutely love him as a role player. 4th star deserved. Polished kid you can throw onto any team and he'll fit.
Zavier Zens, Wisconsin Lutheran , Small Forward
Zavier Zens is a Power Forward from Milwaukee, WI.
Hope he's a long term guy here as I see a very talented kid that'll be a heck of college basketball player as an upperclassmen.
Constanza's really fallen in the rankings.
247sports.com
I remember the first time QC's name appeared on this board (Landon Davis commitment thread) -- he was a 3star, outside the top 100. Constanza was certified top 20.
Alex Constanza, SPIRE Academy , Small Forward
Constanza transferred from Westminster Academy in Florida following his junior year.
247sports.com
I remember the first time QC's name appeared on this board (Landon Davis commitment thread) -- he was a 3star, outside the top 100. Constanza was certified top 20.
#9thMan!Zavier Zens, Wisconsin Lutheran , Small Forward
Zavier Zens is a Power Forward from Milwaukee, WI.
Constanza's really fallen in the rankings.
Alex Constanza, SPIRE Academy , Small Forward
Constanza transferred from Westminster Academy in Florida following his junior year.
I remember the first time QC's name appeared on this board (Landon Davis commitment thread) -- he was a 3star, outside the top 100. Constanza was certified top 20.
Where is at now, there is no commitment in his profile
Here's the updated rankings list for Coleman:
247 -- 13
247composite -- 17
On3 -- 15
On3 industry -- 23
ESPN -- 23
247 -- 13
247composite -- 17
On3 -- 15
On3 industry -- 23
ESPN -- 23
This is not exactly a Muppet news flash, but he is such a gifted shooter. The thought of Coleman and Davis on the court together for stretches is exciting. As great as our offenses have been, and they have been excellent, we have struggled to make wide open shots consistently.Quentin Coleman, The Principia School , Shooting Guard
Quentin Coleman is a 6-4, 180-pound Shooting Guard from Saint Louis, MO.
Coleman will help that.
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