NBA Draft

#126      
PepeSilvia
Emerson Bigguns said:
It's a fun game to play whatif's, but you have to wonder if they kept LaMarcus they are they too good to get the opportunity to draft Noah and Rose?

LaMarcus was a 17 & 8 guy by year 2. Portland went from 32-50 in his first year, 41-41 year 2 to 58-28 by his 3rd year.

Tyrus was a replacement level player.
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Lamarcus would have been a rookie the year before they drafted Noah so I don't think it would have mattered. The blazers also had a healthy Brandon Roy in year 2 who was a superstar in his own right and drove a lot of that improvement.

The NBA gave the Bulls Rose so all they needed to do was be a part of the lottery.
 
#127      
Second place is 1st loser
Mr. Tibbs said:
let’s just be honest about it - the Bulls were good for 15 years due to Jordan & Pippen . A few others were big contributors as well , but take away those two guys, and they have been a horsecrap franchise every year since 1976 until today . How people waste time , money & energy watching that team is beyond me
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To be completely fair, if D Rose stays healthy, that's a team that would have gone nose to nose with Miami for a half decade. That injury derailed what probably would have been a Hall of Fame career.

I don't think that it's ever fair to blame a coach for injuries because you never know if the ligament was already weakened and it was just a matter of time....but up 10 points vs Philly, with 50 seconds to play, Rose should have had the warm-ups back ok resting up for the next game of the playoffs.

In any event, circumstances being what they are.....yes, those Jordan/Pippen years were the only ones that produced an elongated stretch of competence.
 
#128      
jamarvelous31
PepeSilvia said:
Lamarcus would have been a rookie the year before they drafted Noah so I don't think it would have mattered. The blazers also had a healthy Brandon Roy in year 2 who was a superstar in his own right and drove a lot of that improvement.

The NBA gave the Bulls Rose so all they needed to do was be a part of the lottery.
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This is a conspiracy theory hill I will die on.

That and Jordan was soft suspended for gambling when he 1st retired. The 2 could reasonably even be related since Jerry likely would've had to play ball, literally.
 
#129      
21ChampaignSt
jamarvelous31 said:
This is a conspiracy theory hill I will die on.

That and Jordan was soft suspended for gambling when he 1st retired. The 2 could reasonably even be related since Jerry likely would've had to play ball, literally.
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I'm not trying to change your mind since you said you'll die on the hill. To each their own.

But I've never understood the logistics of this theory. So, David Stern had secret henchmen or something spying on Michael Jordan. They uncovered that he had been betting on NBA games. They took this info to Stern and no one else. Stern then takes it to Reinsdorf and Jordan and presumably a team of agents and lawyers and gives this ultimatum. And no one ever speaks a word of it? The competitive maniac that is Michael Jordan, at the height of his celebrity and influence, just quietly accepts it? If Stern would've suspended Michael, Stern's career probably would've been in greater jeopardy than Michael's and I'm sure Michael and his camp knew that. If Stern was worried about the financial fallout of suspending Jordan then why would he not be worried about the fallout of (secretly) suspending Jordan? Why not just look the other way completely?

Honestly, the theory that his dad was killed for his gambling debts, while even more outlandish, holds together a little better.
 
#130      
jamarvelous31
21ChampaignSt said:
I'm not trying to change your mind since you said you'll die on the hill. To each their own.

But I've never understood the logistics of this theory. So, David Stern had secret henchmen or something spying on Michael Jordan. They uncovered that he had been betting on NBA games. They took this info to Stern and no one else. Stern then takes it to Reinsdorf and Jordan and presumably a team of agents and lawyers and gives this ultimatum. And no one ever speaks a word of it? The competitive maniac that is Michael Jordan, at the height of his celebrity and influence, just quietly accepts it? If Stern would've suspended Michael, Stern's career probably would've been in greater jeopardy than Michael's and I'm sure Michael and his camp knew that. If Stern was worried about the financial fallout of suspending Jordan then why would he not be worried about the fallout of (secretly) suspending Jordan? Why not just look the other way completely?

Honestly, the theory that his dad was killed for his gambling debts, while even more outlandish, holds together a little better.
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Stern, Jerry & Falk were THE major NBA power brokers in the 90s. Suspending Jordan, the NBAs biggest brand, would be devastating for a exponentially growing league trying to surpass MLB.

Scenario would be: the NBA gets a tip, investigates and gets corroborating but not iron clad evidence, Jerry mediates a truce including complete forgiveness (Jerry even honored his NBA contract for the year), involves the lawyers to put up NDAs and people don't speak because (as you noted) it would be legacy killing for everyone involved.

If anything thats a simpler scenario than one of the most competitive, brand aware & money saavy people ever created dropping his lifelong passion (that his Dad heavily supported) to play minor leagues in a sport he hadn't played in 12+ years (including college).
 
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#131      
jamarvelous31
jamarvelous31 said:
Stern, Jerry & Falk were THE major NBA power brokers in the 90s. Suspending Jordan, the NBAs biggest brand, would be devastating for a exponentially growing league trying to surpass MLB.

Scenario would be: the NBA gets a tip, investigates and gets corroborating but not iron clad evidence, Jerry mediates a truce including complete forgiveness (Jerry even honored his NBA contract for the year), involves the lawyers to put up NDAs and people don't speak because (as you noted) it would be legacy killing for everyone involved.

If anything thats a simpler scenario than one of the most competitive, brand aware & money saavy people ever created dropping his lifelong passion (that his Dad heavily supported) to play minor leagues in a sport he hadn't played in 12+ years (including college).
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Always Sunny Fx GIF


...and yes, I know that people react differently to grief and I sound crazy.
 
#132      
Calvin
jamarvelous31 said:
Always Sunny Fx GIF


...and yes, I know that people react differently to grief and I sound crazy.
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Personally I don't find it crazy. Full disclosure, I am generally not a crackpot and to make my 2 cents even less interesting, I didn't follow it closely back in the day.
That said, while the NBA has a degree of power and money, so does Vegas. If something could blow up from MJ's gambling, it would make sense that it was in everyone's best interest to find a resolution as quietly as possible. If I read that to say the lottery was rigged, that's a stretch for me for obvious reasons but I couldn't rule it out either. Interesting that the presentation back then was to open marked envelopes --not very transparent. Maybe they wanted conspiracy theories? Any PR is good PR!
 
#135      
Grandpa
PleaseMakeABowlGame said:
Clippers will trade down, most likely
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I immediately thought of the Bears trading up so that they could draft someone that nobody else wanted anyway. I hope those days never come back.

I know that it's a different sport. I'm so scarred from the Bears nonsense that it carries over.
 
#136      
nonsenseone
NarrowJ said:
Keaton's athleticism and strength profiles are holding him back a bit

He measured really well for a perimeter creator, height w/o shoes 6'5, wingspan 6'6 1/4, standing reach 8'4 (funny that I barked all season about him having a 6'11 wingspan... wasn't even close to that... also not even sure where I heard/read that now at this point)

We point to Ayo quite often, but if Keaton could enjoy a similar trajectory in strength and athleticism, then he's going to be very good. Ayo, at the same age, was also completing his freshman season at Illinois and Keaton is a bit ahead of where he was skill wise and has natural mental processing ability that rivals anyone.

What is his ceiling?

Frame Expansion: His added mass (20lbs during single season at Illinois) did not seem to hinder him explosiveness-wise as he still tested with a 33" standing vert and 36" max vert.

Deceleration/Contact: I see a lot of room yet to improve core strength which is going to help in an area he really needs to show improvement: finishing through contact

Burst: He also needs gains in the lower-body to improve first step, creating separation, jumping, etcetera

What is Caleb Wilson's ceiling if he can't develop a reasonably efficient jump shot? Its a real risk drafting that high (just as Keaton gaining a significant amount of additional strength and athleticism is a big risk).

Not trying to create an argument for drafting Wagler over Wilson, because industry-wide its a decision that's already been made for them and they'll be ridiculed endlessly if they were do so, but I can still see a clear path there for Wagler to possibly have a better and longer NBA career.
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the top 4 is 100% solidified. i wont be shocked wagler having better career bc hes less raw but wilson is great fit for the bulls defense is nonexistent there.
bulls will likely move up and with brunson midget guard winning means acuff stock will rise he is easily gettable with taking bad contract in someone like lavine in exchange for 15. if wagler doesnt fall not end of world brown, flemings are good enough prospects from a non lotto pick.

just get wilson and wagler they will be one of the top players in a redraft.
 
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#137      
nonsenseone
ChiefGritty said:
There's no bigger critic of Reinsdorf and the Bulls here than me, but I think this idea that a draftee needs to avoid a particular franchise lest they become a bust isn't really a thing, especially not today when there's such a sameness in the way everyone plays.
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same here. its bs bc chicago has developed one of the best guards especially 2 guards in butler and ayo.
 
#143      
Fly Illini Fly!
Emerson Bigguns said:
Weird that they felt the need to do this.. We all saw it on March 26th.
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Very unlikely that's how it works. It's the team's individual evaluation of the prospect, that matters.

Flemings' team beat Acuff on December 20th. I haven't seen one mock draft that has Flemings ahead of Acuff for draft night.
 
#147      
Fly Illini Fly!
https://twitter.com/x/status/2067219808022659115

"NBA insider Brett Siegel revealed this in multiple columns over the past several days. The Bulls are said to be smitten with Wagler after a recent workout.

“AS REPORTED LAST WEEK ON CLUTCHPOINTS, THE CHICAGO BULLS HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTING TO MOVE UP INSIDE THE TOP 10 OF THIS YEAR’S DRAFT AND ADD ANOTHER HIGH-LEVEL PROSPECT IN ADDITION TO WHAT EVERYONE EXPECTS TO BE CALEB WILSON WITH THE FOURTH PICK. IF THE BULLS WERE TO MOVE UP FROM NO. 15, THE INTENT BEHIND DOING SO WOULD BE TO DRAFT WAGLER, WHO SOURCES SAID CHICAGO HAS PINPOINTED AS A TOP GUARD OPTION IN THIS CLASS AFTER A RECENT WORKOUT."
 
#148      
phats22
Fly Illini Fly! said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2067219808022659115

"NBA insider Brett Siegel revealed this in multiple columns over the past several days. The Bulls are said to be smitten with Wagler after a recent workout.

“AS REPORTED LAST WEEK ON CLUTCHPOINTS, THE CHICAGO BULLS HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTING TO MOVE UP INSIDE THE TOP 10 OF THIS YEAR’S DRAFT AND ADD ANOTHER HIGH-LEVEL PROSPECT IN ADDITION TO WHAT EVERYONE EXPECTS TO BE CALEB WILSON WITH THE FOURTH PICK. IF THE BULLS WERE TO MOVE UP FROM NO. 15, THE INTENT BEHIND DOING SO WOULD BE TO DRAFT WAGLER, WHO SOURCES SAID CHICAGO HAS PINPOINTED AS A TOP GUARD OPTION IN THIS CLASS AFTER A RECENT WORKOUT."
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