Michigan 13, Western Michigan 12

#376      
altgeld88
mattcoldagelli said:
I am kind of embarrassed that this is outpacing our own postgame thread by 4 pages.
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I lived in Canada for a long period, so I'm used to existing among people obsessed with the problems of the tribe next door as a distraction from confronting their own. In our case, that would be woeful defense against a weak opponent.

Schadenfreude, like doomscrolling, is fun, even if corrosive of character.
 
#378      
sbillini
lstewart53x3 said:
This is not true. At the beginning of the game, the moment a kick off return is touched or the first ball is snapped, the clock immediately ticks down from 15:00 to 14:59.
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I've already gone wayyyy to deep down the rabbit hole on this thread...it truly has been fascinating. But I'm gonna go a bit deeper!

It's been discussed somewhere in the caverns of this thread that the clock immediately ticking down seems to be a flaw in the clock systems. If what you're saying is correct, then it would have to be true that 0:00 is not when the clock is done. there would need to be another second after it goes to 0:00 to account for the time from 0:0099 -> 0.00 (just like 14:599 is shown as 14:59 seconds in your example, 0:0099 would show as 0:00). It's either that or there's several seconds (if not many seconds amounting to potentially 1+ minutes) that are short-changed in every game.
 
#379      
lstewart53x3
sbillini said:
I've already gone wayyyy to deep down the rabbit hole on this thread...it truly has been fascinating. But I'm gonna go a bit deeper!

It's been discussed somewhere in the caverns of this thread that the clock immediately ticking down seems to be a flaw in the clock systems. If what you're saying is correct, then it would have to be true that 0:00 is not when the clock is done. there would need to be another second after it goes to 0:00 to account for the time from 0:0099 -> 0.00 (just like 14:599 is shown as 14:59 seconds in your example, 0:0099 would show as 0:00). It's either that or there's several seconds (if not many seconds amounting to potentially 1+ minutes) that are short-changed in every game.
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From what I can find, this is correct.

There is 1 second lost each quarter based on the way the clocks work.

1. There are no tenths of a second used.
2. The first play of each quarter triggers the clock to go down from 15:00 to 14:59 immediately (it does not wait for a second to pass).
3. When the clock strikes 00:00, the quarter is is over. There is not 9 tenths of a second remaining when the clock strikes 00:00.

Therefore, if the Michigan game operated how every other game operates, Western Michigan won the game.

And again, nothing I shared above is being disputed by the B1G. What the B1G disputes is whether or not the clock actually displayed 00:00. Their argument is that the game clock displayed 00:00. So did the stadium clock. But a different clock that the referees and no one else had access to still showed 00:01.
 
#381      
BrownTown
Any review or challenge is always held to the standard of “indisputable video evidence”…it’s just so weird to see this overturned.

My stance remains that Michigan didn’t cheat in this instance as some have proclaimed online.

It does so often happen that the B1G seems to take care of their big brands when needed. Michigan receiving the benefit of such with game suspensions and questionable late game no calls/reversals.

Remember there’s no conspiracy when all parties have the same interest. B1G refs know who signs their checks and who holds the weight.
 
#382      
sbillini
lstewart53x3 said:
From what I can find, this is correct.

There is 1 second lost each quarter based on the way the clocks work.

1. There are no tenths of a second used.
2. The first play of each quarter triggers the clock to go down from 15:00 to 14:59 immediately (it does not wait for a second to pass).
3. When the clock strikes 00:00, the quarter is is over. There is not 9 tenths of a second remaining when the clock strikes 00:00.

Therefore, if the Michigan game operated how every other game operates, Western Michigan won the game.

And again, nothing I shared above is being disputed by the B1G. What the B1G disputes is whether or not the clock actually displayed 00:00. Their argument is that the game clock displayed 00:00. So did the stadium clock. But a different clock that the referees and no one else had access to still showed 00:01.
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so there's two separate issues here. Related, but distinct. 1) Whether the clocks used in all football games shave seconds off the game and 2) whether the clocks read 0:00 when the WMU touched the ball.

Regardless of what one thinks about (1), (2) is still debatable. After going through the video the ChiefGritty posted where you can see both the stadium clock and the ball at the same time in the same frame + various other analyses posted on here, I'm convinced the clock still had 0:01 when the WMU touched the ball, and that either 1) there's was a sync issue between the broadcast game/clock and/or 2) it happened so close that it was easily mistaken (i'd bet the former is more likely than the latter).
 
#383      
STLflyinIllini
If the refs had properly called the blatant facemask on Michigan during one of WMU's 3rd downs in the 4th quarter, maybe WMU could have avoided giving the refs a chance to screw them over by running out more clock and kicking the game winner with 1 second left.

Although now that I think about it...the replay officials probably would have taken away that last second so scUM would have a chance in OT. Their secret clock would have shown that time had run out.
 
#384      
lstewart53x3
sbillini said:
so there's two separate issues here. Related, but distinct. 1) Whether the clocks used in all football games shave seconds off the game and 2) whether the clocks read 0:00 when the WMU touched the ball.

Regardless of what one thinks about (1), (2) is still debatable. After going through the video the ChiefGritty posted where you can see both the stadium clock and the ball at the same time in the same frame + various other analyses posted on here, I'm convinced the clock still had 0:01 when the WMU touched the ball, and that either 1) there's was a sync issue between the broadcast game/clock and/or 2) it happened so close that it was easily mistaken (i'd bet the former is more likely than the latter).
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Regarding (1), based on every rule I’ve read: if the stadium clock displayed 00:00 at the time of the catch, the game is over, even if the play lasted less than 9 seconds.

I’m confused about (2). This is screenshot of the replay. The clock shown in the bottom left corner is the stadium clock, not the tv game clock.

IMG_1506.jpeg


It displays 00:00 before he touches the ball. Are you saying that the replay might not have been properly synced to the stadium clock?
 
#385      
sbillini
lstewart53x3 said:
Regarding (1), based on every rule I’ve read: if the stadium clock displayed 00:00 at the time of the catch, the game is over, even if the play lasted less than 9 seconds.

I’m confused about (2). This is screenshot of the replay. The clock shown in the bottom left corner is the stadium clock. It’s a camera directly on the stadium clock. It is not the tv game clock.

View attachment 51533

It displays 00:00 before he touches the ball. Are you saying that the replay might not have been properly synced to the stadium clock?
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the shot you're showing assumes the feed showing the play and the feed showing the clock are perfectly synced. it also assumes that the clock on the bottom left is an actual video shot of the stadium clock (I'm assuming it is, but don't know for sure if it is).

if you look at the video with both the clock and the play in the same frame from the same camera (not two separate frames from two separate cameras overlaid like the one you show), it's much more apparent that there was still 0:01 on the clock.
 
#388      
ChiefGritty
sbillini said:
it's much more apparent that there was still 0:01 on the clock.
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That's a rather expansive use of "apparent".

Ultimately we have a lot of transparency here, kind of an unexpected amount of transparency, the Big Ten right away released the audio of the replay reviewers considerations alongside the video they were using to make the decision

https://twitter.com/x/status/2096460445213217097

That right there is all they knew at the time, you really kind of have to judge them based on that.

We can pull directly from the NCAA's Instant Replay manual here, which I am very encouraged to see begins, as it must, with Section 1 Purpose and Philosophy:

SECTION 1. Purpose and Philosophy
Purpose
ARTICLE 1. Instant replay is a process whereby video review is used to confirm, reverse or letstand certain
on-field decisions (Rule 12-3) made by game officials.
Philosophy
ARTICLE 2. The instant replay process operates under the fundamental assumption that the ruling on the
field is correct. The replay official may reverse a ruling if and only if the video evidence (Rule 12-6-1-c) is
convincing beyond all doubt that the ruling on the field was incorrect. Without such indisputable video
evidence, the replay official must allow the ruling to stand. (Exception: Targeting Rule 12-3-5-a).
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Did the reviewers fulfill that with the information they worked with in that moment?

For me, clearly not.
 
#394      
AutoPoster 3000
Having witnessed the referee war crimes from Michigan-Illinois in 2000 (the fumble game) and again from Michigan-Illinois in 2022 (the “what OPI?” OPI) my first instinct is always to believe the conspiracy angle. But ironically in this instance the reversal did college football no favor at all. It’s week one, Michigan had all season to recover from the loss, and WMU’s David/Goliath underdog story would have generated much greater positive engagement, viewers, clicks, subscriptions, etc. for college football. It’s all such a disastrous own-goal against the sport.
 
#395      
RabidDawgClassic
Dan said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2097391734946685138
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I think there’s a decent chance this gets overturned. The fact that people have to reference a secret non-stadium clock and parsing down to fractions of a second when no such time keeping is ever recognized in college football leans heavily to no indisputable evidence that the call on the field should be reversed. The more this gets talked about in the media and online, the more the B1G has egg on its face. It wouldn’t surprise me if the conference leaders are actually hoping the NCAA overturns it.

To my knowledge, there’s never been a college football victory overturned after the fact. The closest I can think of was a pac 12 game a few years ago where a meaningless pick six as time ran out was at first ruled out of bounds then hours later that score was added on. It didn’t change the outcome of the game itself, but it was a nightmare for casinos as it changed the outcome of the spread.

In baseball we had the Pine Tar Bat game where the Yankees victory over The Royals was overturned and George Brett’s disallowed home run was later allowed to stand and the final innings had to be replayed.

I’m skeptical the Michigan/WMU result will be overturned, but if there ever was a case where it reasonably could be, it’s this one.
 
#397      
Navy_illini
Dan said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2097391734946685138
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sports.yahoo.com

MAC now says Big Ten replay officials erred in adding 1 second back for Michigan's Hail Mary, asks NCAA to recognize Western Michigan as the winner

The MAC says that replay officials didn't properly follow protocol.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

Article explains what protocol the MAC said was not followed. To me if it are going to change a result of a game this year is the type of situation u do it in based on no time left the decision decided the game
 
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