SOMETIMES. I root for them sometimes when they play against a Duke or Indiana or Kentucky. Rest of the time, I don't care too much about them to root for or against them. Come tournament time, I always root for them to lose except if playing the aforementioned teams above,
1/24 Games
SOMETIMES. I root for them sometimes when they play against a Duke or Indiana or Kentucky. Rest of the time, I don't care too much about them to root for or against them. Come tournament time, I always root for them to lose except if playing the aforementioned teams above,
Go home KSU/ISU, you're drunk.
Chris Lowery crushing it in the purple suit.
Kentucky about to go down to Tennessee. 3 of the top 4 lose on a Tuesday night. Wow. Looks like it is wide open this year.
Gonzaga will probably be #1 for the rest of the regular season. St Mary's has a chance to beat them at home, but good chance they are unbeaten heading into the NCAAs.
I wouldn't root for KU if they were playing the Russian National team and it has nothing to do with Self or Snacks.Glad to see WVU kicked their arises.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Dirtiest of all time? Brown was dirty, no argument. Roy was Roy, but there's no real evidence of dirty, and Self is Self. Yeah, it looks bad when things like Cliffmas happen, along with the loans to Cliff's mom, but that doesn't make it a dirty program. My in-laws are both KU alums and they acknowledge the seedy parts of the past (Brown), but to put KU and Self on the same level as Calipari, Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, etc. in terms of "dirty" is pushing it.
If Self had stayed at Illinois and guided them to the 05 title game he'd be sainted higher than anyone in our history except maybe Lou and we'd be dismissing any claims of "sliminess" as sour grapes from our competitors.
ChampaignLou
- Chicago
Self
Well, they just lost.
Also for the past 7 years (2010 - 2016), they only made 1 final 4, despite being a 1 or 2 seed every year.
That makes him more of a recruiter than coach.
Well, they just lost.
Also for the past 7 years (2010 - 2016), they only made 1 final 4, despite being a 1 or 2 seed every year.
That makes him more of a recruiter than coach.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Bill Self's teams have made the NCAA tournament EVERY year since 1999. His teams have finished no lower than 2nd in their respective conference for the same time period. He owns a lifetime .763 winning percentage and .827 in conference (per wikipedia which doesn't include last night's result yet).
Somewhere, in all of that, lies coaching talent. Laying eggs in the first weekend of the tournament doesn't change that, it happens to everyone at some point or another.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
This is just a nuts statement.
Self has won 12 straight conference titles. I can barely wrap my brain around that.
You would think the last four years would've cured Illinois basketball fans of the fallacy that success in a one-and-done tournament is the true measure of coaching acumen.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Out of curiosity I checked Self's performance in that span against the other big names (K, Roy, Calipari, Pitino). No one even comes close. Bobby Knight never put a string together like that, I can't come up with anyone besides Wooden who did.
Edit--Even Wooden didn't. He finished 2nd or better in conference 16 years in a row, made the tournament (granted, smaller field) 9 years in a row and 13 out of 14 years. In a 64/68 team field he probably would have had 16 or 17 in a row, if not more.
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Oh, come on! Kansas is absolutely on the same level of "dirty" as those programs, under Brown, Roy and Self. Maybe Kentucky kicks it up a notch higher with cash in envelopes, but Kansas = Duke = Carolina as far as shady hirings, "gifts", loans, etc. that are "dirty" but not enough for the weak NCAA to do anything about.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Little did I know when I started a thread for 1/24 games it would be for 1/24/2007
It is ever thus.
Not sure what 2007 has to do with this, but IMO it's ludicrous to think that Kansas is somehow different than the other blue bloods. That's been true since at least the 80's.
Everybody but us! Likely every school in America has committed NCAA violations in one form or another through the years.
Not to single you out but i've grown weary of every recruit we lose or every title we don't win is because other guy cheats. If seemingly everyone but us is doing it and kicking our butts maybe we ought to start.
It has nothing to do with us or specific recruits or bitterness about Self or Jerrance. I absolutely think everyone does it to some extent, including Illinois. I just think it's incredulous that Kansas is somehow on a higher level than the other blue bloods. Only a Kansas fan would believe that.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
Not to continue the way-off-basedness of this thread, but I've yet to see (in this thread) any specific allegations of what KU has done that's bad/worse/worst and draws such ire.
No, they aren't squeaky clean, but who is? How are they "maybe the dirtiest college basketball program of all time?" If there are things out there that I don't know about, I'm eager to learn.
I didn't say the "dirtiest program of all time" part and don't believe that. I just don't share the same thought as your KU alum in-laws that Kansas is any different than Duke or Carolina, and doubt that many objective observers think that either.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
You're right, you didn't say that, my bad, that was the other guy who also offered no specifics.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
But in Kansas' case, they have been busted for cheating over and over for years and have never stopped. Both times they have won a national championship, they have been put on probation immediately afterwards for violations.
The only reason I mentioned Missouri and Kansas State is because they know all of the details and are more than happy to share them. Just because people say you are cheating doesn't mean you aren't.
The only people who would claim Kansas is cleaner than the other "elites" are Kansas fans. There has just been so much slimey stuff from them over multiple coaches. It is systemic to their program.
I mean, come on! Roy Williams admitted to openly paying players cash for year as "graduation gifts" and he was considered one of their more honest coaches.
KU hasn't been put on probation for a program violation since 1988--the Larry Brown years. The violation--Brown paid for a plane ticket home for a recruit who had a family emergency--and disclosed the donation to the NCAA.
The other probation in 06 (before the NC in 08, btw) wasn't program related, it was boosters, and KU self-reported when they discovered it. Not very indicative of a corrupt program. And they managed to continue to win even with reduced scholarships.... This isn't "busted for cheating over and over" in my book.
Is there something specific that can be verified that you want to bring up, or just message board rumors from fanbases that are jealous of KU's ability to get recruits and then win with them?
Again, I'm not saying they're squeaky clean, because almost no program is, but there's no evidence I'm aware of that suggests a systemic corruption of the KU basketball program. There is certainly evidence of a handful of boosters that hand out envelopes at the end of the season, but that's not the program itself, and it happens a whole lot of places, included the hallowed halls of UIUC.
Ok, it is obvious now that you are just a Kansas apologist so probably nothing I say is going to change your mind.
Here is an example of the kind of thing that Kansas was never punished for but they do all the time to game the system:
Sherron Collins is a poor kid from the inner-city of Chicago and a 5-star point guard. He signs with Kansas amid rumors (articles written by journalists, not just message board rumors) that his high school coach, Anthony Longstreet, was paid to deliver him.
Longstreet, btw, in spite having great success as a coach is removed soon after by his principal for "not having the best interests of his players" in mind. (The article about his firing from 2008 is now offline.)
He was then out of coaching completely from 2008 until 2014. Here is a quote from the article about his being finally hired by Manley High School:
"Longstreet has been actively trying to get back into coaching. Controversy, rumors and criticism followed Longstreet during his career at Crane, which prevented him from getting jobs at Kenwood, Julian, Farragut, Robeson and a couple of other city programs over the past four years."
http://www.suntimeshighschoolsports.com/2014/08/06/anthony-longstreet-is-back-hired-at-manley/
Interestingly, if you look at his reported salary at Crane High School during Sherron Collins' last year, he made $50,961.
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/ftf/ftf_teacher.php?tid=62436&year=2004
The year after Collins enrolled at Kansas, Longstreet's reported salary was listed as $28,794. That is quite a coincidence that he was able to take an almost 50% pay cut at his school. Apparently he had additional income to tide him over.
http://www.familytaxpayers.org/ftf/ftf_teacher.php?tid=223824&year=2005
Now, when Collins starts at Kansas, he is given as a roommate Brady Morningstar, who just happens to be the son of a former KU basketball player and big Kansas booster, Roger Morningstar. Collins is "adopted" into the Morningstar family and they pay for him take trips back to Chicago regularly to visit his girlfriend and son, among other financial assistance.
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2010/mar/04/morningstar-reminisces/
A couple years later, the Kansas ticket scandal hits and it comes out that Roger Morningstar was getting Kansas basketball tickets and selling them on the second-hand market. He made hundreds of thousands of dollars by doing this. He was given the tickets by Kansas basketball staffers.
So basically, Roger Morningstar was given thousands of Kansas basketball tickets, which he sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and he then gave money to players like Sherron Collins and also AAU coaches like the Pump brothers who supplied players to Kansas.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/news/story?id=5223151
You cannot possibly read the article I linked above with an open mind and not see the slimey-ness of the whole thing.
That is just ONE example.
The following blog touches on a lot more stuff over the years:
https://silkroadsandsiamesesmiles.com/2010/02/16/cheating-kansas-recorded-for-posterity/
Here is another post that goes into a lot of detail: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/kansas-basketball-scandals-very-long-takes-time-read
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