89illinigrad
- Chicago
What better candidates (who actually wanted the job) did we choose Groce over? (This is the first time I've heard this).
2017 Coaching Carousel
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What better candidates (who actually wanted the job) did we choose Groce over? (This is the first time I've heard this).
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
Chris Collins for starters... Lots of names out there. Buzz Williams
Chris Collins and Tim Miles are the two I was screaming about at the time. Gregg Marshall was very available at the time. Lord knows I hate him but Josh Pastner was an option. Ben Jacobson was as much on the table then as now.
You could go on and on. Scott Sutton, Blaine Taylor, Randy Rahe, etc etc etc. Groce wasn't even the best candidate in the MAC, Keith Dambrot was clearly better then and now.
Groce's resume was PROFOUNDLY poor. It can't be overstated. This is not revisionist history. This is what I said, quite overdramatically (imagine that
) at the time. Groce was Jerrance Howard if Howard had gone to a head coaching job and PROVED he wasn't a difference maker over four years.His resume did not guarantee failure, nor did any of the better resumes I just listed guarantee success. Our next coach's resume will not guarantee success, I don't care if Whitman pulls a rabbit out of his hat and hires Sean Miller or Tony Bennett.
But I GUARANTEE that if we go into the open market we will hire a coach with a considerably stronger resume than Groce had in 2012. I promise you.
Buzz Williams take a pass
Williams has been a bust at VA Tech he is 46-42 in his 3rd year he was only good at Marquette because mostly due to Crean's recruits and that the Big East pretty much dissolved into teams like Butler, St John's and DePaul. The good teams left that conference years ago.
Williams has been a bust at VA Tech he is 46-42 in his 3rd year he was only good at Marquette because mostly due to Crean's recruits and that the Big East pretty much dissolved into teams like Butler, St John's and DePaul. The good teams left that conference years ago.
Hill has gotten better
I agree with your comments on Groce not developing players but Hill has improved since he started at Illinois. His average is about what is was last year and he is a top 5 player in the Big Ten.
I agree with your comments on Groce not developing players but Hill has improved since he started at Illinois. His average is about what is was last year and he is a top 5 player in the Big Ten.
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
In his defense Buzz took over a god awful program and complete rebuild at VT. Not really fair to judge his first 2 years at VT. He butted heads with the higher ups at Marquette and took a lateral move to VT. Bracket matrix has VT a #8 seed. He made the tournament at Marquette every year until his last season.
Illiniwek06
- N of I-80
Disagree with Buzz being a bust at VT. He took over a program that went 22-41 under the previous coach. They were 11-22 in Buzz's first year, when they lost eight guys from the previous year. 20-15 last year, 16-5 this year.
Illiniwek06
- N of I-80
Jkat00
- Champaign, IL
Chris Collins and Tim Miles are the two I was screaming about at the time. Gregg Marshall was very available at the time. Lord knows I hate him but Josh Pastner was an option. Ben Jacobson was as much on the table then as now.
You could go on and on. Scott Sutton, Blaine Taylor, Randy Rahe, etc etc etc. Groce wasn't even the best candidate in the MAC, Keith Dambrot was clearly better then and now.
Groce's resume was PROFOUNDLY poor. It can't be overstated. This is not revisionist history. This is what I said, quite overdramatically (imagine that
His resume did not guarantee failure, nor did any of the better resumes I just listed guarantee success. Our next coach's resume will not guarantee success, I don't care if Whitman pulls a rabbit out of his hat and hires Sean Miller or Tony Bennett.
But I GUARANTEE that if we go into the open market we will hire a coach with a considerably stronger resume than Groce had in 2012. I promise you.
For some reason I think Whitman goes hard after Chris Collins.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Oh, C'mon. I understand the angst with Groce and the state of the program, but blanket statements like this are just ridiculous.
Ever hear of Maverick Morgan? A 3 star guy who Groce has developed into a BIG starting center.
Finke and Hill have developed just fine too.
Black has also taken a step up this year from his foul plagued freshman year.
To say that Groce cannot develop players is disingenuous. His problem is getting them all to play together and consistently.
Tier A coaches to make a call to: Tony Bennett, Scott Drew, Gregg Marshall
Tier B coaches to consider: Buzz Williams, Frank Martin, Chris Mack, Archie Miller, Larry Krystowiak, Cuonzo Martin, Doug Wojo(a decent substitute since I don't think we go after Chris Collins within the conference), Andy Enfield
Tier C coaches: Keatts, Rick Barnes, Tim Jankovich, Brad Underwood, Jerrod Haase, Matt MacCall.
If the Illini could get someone in my Tier A or Tier B, I'd be happy.
Tier B coaches to consider: Buzz Williams, Frank Martin, Chris Mack, Archie Miller, Larry Krystowiak, Cuonzo Martin, Doug Wojo(a decent substitute since I don't think we go after Chris Collins within the conference), Andy Enfield
Tier C coaches: Keatts, Rick Barnes, Tim Jankovich, Brad Underwood, Jerrod Haase, Matt MacCall.
If the Illini could get someone in my Tier A or Tier B, I'd be happy.
Morgan is quite a bit better.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
I have a hard time seeing any AD, let alone JW, stealing a coach from another BIG school. Its probably some unwritten rule.
Jim Delany would be very aggressive in trying to stop that. And Jim Delany is probably the most powerful man in college sports.
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
Bold prediction, I like. Righting Mike Thomas's wrong. Wonder what we could sell that he doesn't get at Northwestern. He has access to all the same players I would think, maybe the academics are more different than I know.
I hope I'm wrong but we'll see in the nba draft.
What Hill is doing now, he would of done as a freshman if Groce had played him more. Look at Lucas (a very good point guard) who only got in the starting line-up because of the pressure Groce got from forums like this one.
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illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
We got Lucas to start? That seems crazy to me.
Collins or Archie Miller
I love Collins he is a very good young coach but would you rather have Archie Miller? I think he has a higher ceiling then Collins but I'd take either
I love Collins he is a very good young coach but would you rather have Archie Miller? I think he has a higher ceiling then Collins but I'd take either
If he's smart he'll keep it close to the vest
Realistic shots at these coaches
The Tier A guys not a chance take this job but he needs to kick the tires for sure!! I really only think of the Tier B guys the only ones in play are Miller and Cuonzo who I don't think is a good fit here. I like the Keatts possibility but Underwood just took the Okie State job last year so forget him and the others I don't think would work out.
The Tier A guys not a chance take this job but he needs to kick the tires for sure!! I really only think of the Tier B guys the only ones in play are Miller and Cuonzo who I don't think is a good fit here. I like the Keatts possibility but Underwood just took the Okie State job last year so forget him and the others I don't think would work out.
+1
A coach leaving for another program in the same conference would be the epitome of treasonous. It would be like us having a coach bolt for IU. If a coach ever did that to us, he would make Bruce Pearl look like a half decent human being in our eyes.
No way Collins leaves NW for Illinois right why would he? He will stay at NW until Duke comes calling in a few years after Coach K retires?
Look at the empty seats and/or the ones with visiting fans at the State Farm center
Whitman is too good of an executive to show is hand. He's too good to not realize Groce is done, not have a list already going, not have already worked the back channels to contact agents, etc. Definitely too good to tip his hand and have it back fire as Thomas so famously did with Weber.
I reject the premise of Groce being the coach next year. It's just not going to happen. The only question pertaining to Groce's job status should be if he's let go in between the BTT and the NIT or after a NIT exit.
I reject the premise of Groce being the coach next year. It's just not going to happen. The only question pertaining to Groce's job status should be if he's let go in between the BTT and the NIT or after a NIT exit.
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