Sure he has points. But keeping Groce for another year makes more sense if no one decent is available and the program won't be further damaged.
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2017 Coaching Carousel
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I don't respect Jeff Goodman much at all, but he sure is adamant on Twitter that Archie to NC State isn't going to happen
Archie has turned down several good jobs in the past & seems to be quite content at Dayton.
Joe, I hope you are correct. I think Groce has to go, but the last thing I want is the debacle that led to him being here. Offering a bunch of coaches a lot of money and none of them wanting the job.
When Groce came, we had a talent problem. Although I believe with next year's class, that page is turned. I do believe that we have a scholarships problem. That could be exacerbated with losing future classes as a new coach arrives.
If we losing the incoming class along with next year's class and the potential to recruit for possibly another year with more uncertainty, I believe, would be devastating. Couple that with struggle finding a coach, and the diminished perspective of Illinois basketball, I think that puts us back to where we were roughly when Groce arrived.
I think we have a great class coming in, we are going to lose this year anyway. Let Groce keep the class and begin looking for next year.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
So you feel that either (a) the incoming class next year will be good enough to make the team MORE appealing to other coaches in 2018, even if they once again go 7-11, 6-12 (or worse) in conference play, or (b) that Groce will suddenly learn how to coach and prove that he should be kept long-term. Is that right?
In response, I (a) haven't heard anyone make a real case for this team being better next year than this year, based solely on the incoming Freshman being better prepared for Big Ten Basketball than the outgoing 4th and 6th-year seniors, and another year of losing just makes this program look even worse. And (b) I can't imagine how Groce would suddenly grow skills in the offseason that he hasn't shown in the past four. He's shown no capacity to change his approach, or try new schemes, or change his coaching staff to make things better.
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If he punts (again) until next year, Whitman won't have to worry about making an exciting hire, because there won't be any fans left to try to excite.
The Illinois job is much more desirable now than it was in 2012. Newly renovated facilities. Well respected AD. Great recruiting class coming in plus solid pieces among your returning players. Another advantage is you have no seniors next year. If a coach can get next year's group to excel, it gives him a huge advantage because he returns that entire team the following year and gives him the opportunity to create some big time momentum to propel the program back into the upper echelons of the game.
What have you seen that makes you think coach Groce can win with any combination of players he's had or will have? He's continued to under perform with players that are at the very least +50% big ten record caliber. Coach is a great guy and I really wish it would have worked out but Whitman can see this and will make a move this year. There are no apologies, rationalizations, hoping or planning that will change that just because a few of you like him of feel bad for him. If we lose an entire recruiting class (which we wont) that's what will have to happen.
good bye coach, good luck in your future.
good bye coach, good luck in your future.
As Dave Wischnowsky mentioned to me yesterday on Twitter, you have to fire him or extend him. He can't recruit without an extension. It's beyond me how we don't fire Groce but the more you see Whitman interact with him, the more you have to think that he's looking for any possible way to keep him. Using the "I couldn't find anyone better" excuse seems to fit here, and we'll never know if thats even accurate. I can tell you that if Whitman chooses to keep him, I will lose a lot of trust in Whitman. His "WE WILL WIN" slogan will fall on deaf ears. Also, did anyone see all the recruits talking yesterday on twitter? Being very vague, seemed odd
Where did this "he might get another year" stuff come from, officially? Where did the rumor start? I'm terrible at trying to navigate twitter.
Because whoever started it is a dummy, or related to Groce. He's gone, and there's not point in even debating it. There are 10s of coaches who Illinois could get very easily who would be a better coach than Groce. Unless Whitman is picking names out of a hat, it will be hard to get a coach worse than what Groce has done in his time here.
I'd rather have Finke's dad coach next year than Groce
Because whoever started it is a dummy, or related to Groce. He's gone, and there's not point in even debating it. There are 10s of coaches who Illinois could get very easily who would be a better coach than Groce. Unless Whitman is picking names out of a hat, it will be hard to get a coach worse than what Groce has done in his time here.
I'd rather have Finke's dad coach next year than Groce
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So it really is grasping at straws. Gotcha, thanks.
Whitman's done nothing in his (very brief) career that says he'll do something as stupid as retain Groce (which means 2 year extension) for next year because he can't find that "home run" hire. It's just nonsense, worse than assuming Hoidberg is going to step down in April and take the job.
Yeah I mean without Tracy or Tate even able to suit up, it kind of forces the hand, right?
BlindLoyalty
- FartNoiseMotivation
It has been suggested to me that some of the names mentioned throughout this thread as prospective hires perceive Whitman as a "football guy" based on his background, experience and priorities at Illinois. A few of the names would only leave their current positions for a University that is a "basketball school" where the basketball program is the unquestioned #1 priority for the university, athletic department, AD, fans and donors. Illinois is not perceived that way by a few of the names mentioned.
FeelTheLovie
- Louisville, KY
Boy is it weird to think about Illinois that way, but hopefully 5 years from now this is a much more positive sentiment if Lovie can compete in the B1G. Although if this is in fact the reality of the situation, it seems like Keatts could still be a possibility. As it has been previously discussed, he isn't necessarily regarded as a big splash or someone who is in line for a power 5 program next season.
I think the general thought is he's presents himself as a boss you'd want to work for.
Exactly, its not like someone close is going to say they are a few weeks from listing his home. At the very least this has been drawn out from someone asking the question if he's fired to a family member and that response being drawn out into something like "John is going to be working here for a long time." Stupid question to ask, there isn't a single person connected to either Groce or the athletics program that wouldn't say something that could be twisted into a possibility of him returning.
This is exactly why theres not reason to keep him. Right now, we have RSCI guys ranked: 70,69,46,37, and 78. Not to mention those who are contributing like Morgan, Lucas, and Kipper who aren't even top 100 RSCI guys. Tilmon is the only guy coming in who's got a RSCI rank (25). There's either a talent eval problem, in which case why would this class be any different, or a talent development problem, which isnt going to fix itself over night. SSDD.
This can't be true either. We just sunk $160MM+ into the basketball stadium with a rumored practice facility on the horizon. Every AD should take care of football first, because that's the main sport funding the rest of your department.
Any intelligent potential coach can see that there's a huge monetary and fan focused investment in the basketball program here. I wouldn't want to work with an AD who's going to punt on the football program to only focus on being a "basketball school", because that's an AD who won't be my boss for very long.
Keatts will be moving up after this season, to Illinois or elsewhere, there's enough openings on the East Coast that he will certainly be finding a new home with that resume, IMO
We hired a good, promising, young AD with strong ties to our program. But we did not hire agent 007. Posters often exaggerate what Whitman can do, frequently referring to completing the job search before we even begin. There are even posts that mention that he has already secured Cuonzo. None of it is true, even if Cuonzo ends up the candidate. If schools could secure coaches before firing a coach, many other schools would have done it.
Same is true with Colangelo. Every time Illinois conducts a coaching search, there will be frequent posts that mention that Colangelo is pulling the strings and is heavily involved. I worked with many people in the AD in the past, and still know quite a few in the current AD (although many less than in previous administrations), and while Colangelo has often been consulted, he has never been the one pulling the strings. Same with Khan. Yet, their names always appear on coaching searches on message boards, because it makes for "feel good" rumors, similar to the many "feel good" rumors about recruits.
Same with Fletcher, he is doing a really good job, but if you read Illini message boards, you'd think that we have discovered the fountain of youth and the Illini team has transformed itself as the king of athleticism and strength in the entire college basketball world.
Many exaggerations and unfair expectations for Whitman, yet I think Whitman will do an excellent job. But he is no magician.
This. And more often than not, he looks confused by what is happening - almost paralyzed by it and unable to change/adjust...look no further than the fact that here we are, 75% of the season done, and the rotations are still a mess unlike I've ever seen in college hoops. It's ridiculous.
Groce has used 9 different starting lineups this year.
Without injury issues that plagues other programs.
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