mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
So you are saying if Tony Bennett wanted to take the Illinois job, you would rather we keep John Groce? Just want to make sure that's what I'm reading and I'm not having a seizure or a hallucination.
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So you are saying if Tony Bennett wanted to take the Illinois job, you would rather we keep John Groce? Just want to make sure that's what I'm reading and I'm not having a seizure or a hallucination.
I am saying I would hope to get someone better than him so we can compete for Big Ten Championships and Final Fours. I dont think Bennett will get that done. So yes, if it means one more year with John Groce to get the right person, I am all for it. I don't want any middle of the road guys any more. Feel free to blast me for wanting more.
mhuml32
- Cincinnati, OH
You said his system couldn't win Big Ten or National Titles. Ransom just showed you why that is a false, no need to back pedal by focusing on national titles portion of your argument and ignoring the rest. I also am not a fan on only hiring a coach that has a proven system to win a NC. Basketball is constantly evolving and has had coaches win with very different systems. Fifteen years ago people were saying you couldn't just run offense centralized around the pick and roll or be a run and gun team or rely on freshman.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
You and I must have dramatically different definitions of "win big on the national level."
The Badgers are currently on a run of 17 straight NCAA invites, likely going on 18. 7 times a 4 seed or higher, 3 FFs in that run, and counting those FFs have made the SS 9 times. Teams coached by Ryan won 24 or more games 11 times.
The reference to Weberball is that Guenther kept kicking the can down the road and Weber kept driving the UIUC hoops program further into the ground.
There are coaches out there, plenty of them, that Illinois can (and will) get. This year.
Not back tracking. Bo Ryan and Wisconsin evolved and now Gard is continuing that. Have you looked at how well Virginia's offense is rolling along these days? People like to point to the 38 or 39 point game against PSU during one of Weber's last two years. Bennett will bring slow down grind em out basketball back. He has shown no ability to refine and develop his offense over the past several years. You only will get so far with defense and low turnovers. To win and win big, the name of the game is driving to the basket and being able to shoot threes. Our current team is bereft of both levels of talent and that is why we struggle. Why bring a guy in who has a style of offense that excels in neither category?
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
How can you be so certain that a successful coach like Bennett couldn't "evolve" just like Ryan did?
Tony Bennett has an Elite 8 and 2 ACC titles. Neither of those are winning big? He's also landed a McDonald's All American last year. His 2016 class was 7th overall, and the average grade for his 2016 class was a 97.36. Our 2017 class' average grade is a 93.52. Both classes have 4 commits at the time of writing.
I'm fine with differing opinions. But what you're talking about boils down to "I don't like his style" and then a bunch of objectively false claims.
Because he's 85-50 in ACC play at VIRGINIA and was been top 4 in the conference every single year for the last 5 years.
Also, what is this Bo Ryan "evolution" you're referring to? Tempo in 2015 (NCAA runner up year) -- 347th nationally. Tempo in 2014 (Final Four) -- 297th nationally. And don't try to tell me Frank Kaminsky is an elite athlete.
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This. Who is this unicorn that is going to fall in our laps by waiting a year or two?
I will build the Whitman statue myself if Tony Bennett takes this job.
I never said, Bennett was a bad coach. I said he wasn't my idea of a homerun hire. I also don't see his strong recruiting class doing much for picking up his team's offense this year. That being said, could the kids develop and help him in the future its possible. I don't claim to know the measurables on every basketball player that Virginia has recruited and is on their class.
Frank Kaminsky is not an elite athlete, he is an exceptional and talented basketball player who is a highly skilled big man at the college level. The information on Wisconsin's tempo is enlightening and I will have to look at that more. It also might be interesting to look at Wisconsin's offensive efficiency during that time and my hunch is it is a lot higher than their tempo.
Let me cut to the chase. I will concede that by record and the "eye test" Bennett is better than Groce. What I am not willing to concede is that Bennett or any of the mid major coaches will be a winner if they were to come to Illinois. This all started with the presumption of taking a coach who will get you to the middle of the big ten over keeping groce one more year. I would prefer one more year of misery if that is what it takes to "get the hire right" than 5 more years of slightly better but still mediocre play finishing between 6-8th place in the Big Ten, before going through the process again. I am tired of starting to have to look at Illinois' remaining schedule at the end of January to cobble together enough victories to get Illinois on the right side of "the bubble." the first weekend of March. I just want to win and win regularly and win big. I don't expect to be Kentucky, Duke, KU, but I sure don't think it is unreasonable for us to be in the next tier. If Bennett or some other hire this year comes here and proves me wrong I would be the happiest guy in the world. I have watched a lot of basketball over the last 30+ years. We should be better than we are now-we should be much better.
Or per the video I posted, MW and his kids have discussed it and they said they want Dad to return to coaching. Plus if the rumor is correct that the in laws want to return to SW Mich/Midwest to be with their other kids/grandkids, then C/U is a possibilty. Remember his oldest daughter is @ Wheaton.
I never said you said he was a bad coach. You did say you didn't think he could win big (he has two conference titles in the best hoops conference, and an elite 8, so...). You did say you didn't think he can recruit top level athletes, which he also has done. A coach with a national title under his belt is not walking through the door anytime soon.
You will find a list of exactly zero coaches who are even the slightest bit attainable who will be a sure thing. This will be the truth this year and any ensuing year.
Lovie Smith was a home run hire and he hadn't recruited in decades and was far from a sure thing himself. That's just how coaching hires go. You seek the best possible candidate, give them resources to succeed, and after that, hope it pans out. This is how it will always be. Waiting a year or 8 and sitting on a bad coach will not change that.
Taking everything you say is true including the national championship comment, then Bennett is an unrealistic get. For those pining for him it is not realistic. Maybe that is the unicorn out there that someone asked for. I agree you get the best possible guy. But if you are not thrilled with your prospects you don't compound a bad situation with another bad hire-that is all i am saying. I also, do not agree that a "sure thing" will never surface. However, if there are personal issues for a coach at the current school or job or in his family life opens the door for a strong coach to want t change of scenery, then by all means pounce. That is where Whitman earns his money in being able to identify that guy and get him here. I want him to succeed but that is a situation that doesn't happen very often.
As to the Lovie comment, he was a homerun hire for a dead program. The jury is still out if he was a home run hire in terms of winning on the college level. Only time will tell. Hope he is a home run hire. Takes much longer to build a program in football than basketball.
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Case in point, Ron Zook. They should have let him go after the 2009 season, but instead, they kept him on to grind out two more mediocre overall record seasons with abysmal Big Ten play.
Cas in point, hiring the wrong coach when you did and committing to firing Zook and then swinging and missing on unrealistic hires like Sumlin led you to Beckman and that sorry chapter. If you ask me if I would rather have had one more year of Zook, than bringing Coach Beckman sign me up. I would gladly take one more year of the Zooker.
Fine, give me Mark Few, Gregg Marshall or Chris Mack. Non blue bloods who very likely are not interested. Few has a great program but will have a hard time ever getting his team over the top as he stops playing any good teams around January first until he gets into the tournament other than the occasional St. Mary's game on the road. As for Mack, his teams consistently play tough and are good solid teams. I dont know what the whole story is on their guard who up and left the team in the middle of the year. Finally, Marshall has built a hell uva a program but might be a jerk. He has been approached before but no one can lure him away. Maybe he is ready to make the jump. His teams have played really well in the last few years and I believe the only year they disappointed was when they got knocked out by a young Kentucky team that made it to the Final Four. Lets start there. Before anyone, pounds on me for saying they have been mentioned, do I think any of them would come here, I doubt it but as I said all along, they are a lot closer to home run hire and I would have a lot more faith in them coming, yes even over the great Coach Bennett.
OrangeAndBlues
- Indianapolis
Because, as he noted, you won't attract good athletes and be nationally competitive with that slow ball, kind of like how Wisconsin attracts good athletes and is nationally competitive with slow ball but only because they attract good athletes which you can't do playing slow ball.
Don't worry, it's not circular logic.
A) Virginia is in the ACC, NOT a mid major league.
B) While Virginia is in the middle of nowhere, it is NOT a mid major program and was at one time a good program under Terry Holland. It started going to pot when they hired the underage skirt chaser Jeff Jones. Bennett has been helping return Virginia back to a competitive, prominent place in the ACC. If he can do it at UVA, why not at Illinois?
If you can look at Wisconsin's roster now and compare it athletically to their roster 5 years ago, they are much better skilled basketball players now than they were then. Yes they were a top 4 Big Ten team at that time, but they only took off when they increased their athleticism. From an athletic standpoint, are they Kentucky or Oregon? But they are good enough to play with the Kentucky's and Oregon on a consistent basis.
You need athletic guys but guys who can also play basketball. There are some phenomenal athletes who don't have basketball IQ. You have phenomenal athletes who can touch a backboard but who cant dribble a basketball. Lets not make absurd leaps. I don't want decathletes on my team. I want athletic players who can put the ball on the floor when they need to and get to the hoop or create a shot. I want a kid who is tough and makes the open shot but who can also play defense and if he is not a superior athlete he is smart enough to put himself in the right position so that even though he cant match up physically, he can still play defense. Can Bennett get that job done, time will tell. But if he wants to get to a Final Four, he will need to
That's just adding another year of uncertainty in the recruiting, another year of mediocrity, and another abysmal year of Big Ten play. Unless you are OK with mediocrity. You probably wanted Lou Tepper to stay. Oy ve.
You need COACHABLE athletic guys who get along with each other. Otherwise you end up with a team that isn't really a team but a roster of very good individual players that don't listen to the coach and don't play together. E.g. the Milton Bradley Cubs
Seriously, you think I don't know that Virginia is not in the ACC? Reading is a skill. I never said that. I said the mid major coaches listed in this thread or Coach Bennett were not the home run hire I was looking for. I also conceded that Bennett is a better coach than Groce. I said I want to win and win big and I don't think Bennett is the guy who will get you to win big. I don't think you consistently win big with Bennett. I believe his team was a better team than Syracuse last year, but they lost. Does that one loss make him a bad coach, no. Does it make me wonder if he can win big, yes but I am willing to concede I might be wrong about him.
Nice chatting with you all but I have to run.
For those wondering about Mark Gottfried, this was NC State this year.
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