2017 Coaching Carousel

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#7,426      

dweebs19

dweebs19
dweebs19
PlayAZ said:
^^^ I agree with this, the only problem is there are not that many names bandied about that would take us lower imo and many others.

C Martin would take us lower? Don't think so his recruiting alone would better establish us even if he couldn't coach them any better...talent still wins more games.
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If that were true, with the talent he has on his team, he wouldn't be losing to the likes of Hawaii and Utah by 30 points
 
#7,428      

zpfled

Z
Logan Square, Chicago
zpfled
Let me make one thing clear, though: I'm not advocating that Groce stays because I think he is for sure the best option for UI recruiting.

I'm just saying I don't want a guy who won't at least be as good as Groce on the recruiting trail, and right away. I don't want to sit through another year or two of depleted rosters while a new coach gets started. If a new guy can jump in and get great players, bring him in.
 
#7,429      

Deleted member 626650

D
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Deleted member 626650
zpfled said:
Sooo...what percentage of coaches are good coaches, in your estimation? Your 'good coach' definition sounds like the definition of 'Hall of Fame Coach'.

Plus, in college, why do you need a coach who can win with any 5 guys, when the coach is responsible for assembling the team? I just want a coach who can get the best 5 guys, be at least Big-Ten-average in the in-game coaching department, and then beat other teams because he's better at recruiting.
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This train of thought feels like over-simplification to me. Crean has had ample talent, Howland did at UCLA, Cal had that team that lost in the NIT at UK. You can't just roll the ball out with minimal to average coaching and expect the results you want. If that were the case, Groce would have been more successful than he's been IMO.
 
#7,430      

zpfled

Z
Logan Square, Chicago
zpfled
dweebs19 said:
If that were true, with the talent he has on his team, he wouldn't be losing to the likes of Hawaii and Utah by 30 points
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As we've seen before, it's not just highly ranked players, it's the right combination of those players.

I don't know enough about Cal's roster to have any idea if they have a good balance of talented players, and Cal's nosedive at the end of this season is a head scratcher for sure.
 
#7,431      

zpfled

Z
Logan Square, Chicago
zpfled
Buckets4days said:
This train of thought feels like over-simplification to me. Crean has had ample talent, Howland did at UCLA, Cal had that team that lost in the NIT at UK. You can't just roll the ball out with minimal to average coaching and expect the results you want. If that were the case, Groce would have been more successful than he's been IMO.
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What part of "Big-Ten-average" coaching makes you think I meant "minimal to average"?
 
#7,432      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
JudsonFTS said:
Is your point good coaching does not make a big difference or is your point there is no lab test for this?
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This is not about a "lab" test, but it can never be proven, even on the court. So we play a team, and next week we switch coaches? It is meaningless. Furthermore, if we play Kentucky and next week we switch coaches, I believe Groce may still beat UI with Kentucky talent. Yet, this statement is a proveless assertion under any scenario or coach.
 
#7,433      

Deleted member 626650

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Deleted member 626650
zpfled said:
What part of "Big-Ten-average" coaching makes you think I meant "minimal to average"?
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The fact that you used the word "Big Ten average."

You need players, to be sure. But the coach needs to put those players in a position to win. Just look at what Keats did his first year at UNC-Willmington. He didn't have great talent overnight. He's a superior coach, at least for that level.
 
#7,434      

midastouch11

midastouch11
New York, New York
midastouch11
Obelix said:
This is not about a "lab" test, but it can never be proven, even on the court. So we play a team, and next week we switch coaches? It is meaningless. Furthermore, if we play Kentucky and next week we switch coaches, I believe Groce may still beat UI with Kentucky talent. Yet, this statement is a proveless assertion under any scenario or coach.
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It can also never be proven that Tom Brady is better than Jay Cutler, yet, we all know it.
 
#7,435      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
midastouch11 said:
It can also never be proven that Tom Brady is better than Jay Cutler, yet, we all know it.
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There are many ways you can support an argument that a player or coach is better than others. Basing it on a proveless experiment is not one of them, which is my point.
 
#7,436      

midastouch11

midastouch11
New York, New York
midastouch11
Obelix said:
There are many ways you can support an argument that a player or coach is better than others. Basing it on a proveless experiment is not one of them, which is my point.
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I had to scroll back and see that experiment, and you've got a point, it's tough to judge a coach in that scenario when it's not long term. But in the same right, that poster is also right that I think Groce is going to get as little as possible out of whatever 5 he's given in all but the few games that his guys are shooting 3's at a ridiculous clip.
 
#7,437      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Buckets4days said:
The fact that you used the word "Big Ten average."

You need players, to be sure. But the coach needs to put those players in a position to win. Just look at what Keats did his first year at UNC-Willmington. He didn't have great talent overnight. He's a superior coach, at least for that level.
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He is a superior coach at that level, if you consider all aspects of coaching. No doubt about that. But you can isolate the X's and O's, because while a coach at that level may not have top talent, it may be that he has superior talent compared to other teams "at that level." I watch a lot of basketball but I can't say that I've watched enough of CAA to have a comprehensive evaluation. But overall, including the combination of all aspects, at that level, he is a superior coach.
 
#7,439      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
midastouch11 said:
But in the same right, that poster is also right that I think Groce is going to get as little as possible out of whatever 5 he's given in all but the few games that his guys are shooting 3's at a ridiculous clip.
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I don't know. Honestly, I consider Weber as the primary reason for the decline of our program. If 2003-2005 did not exist, one could have easily made the assertion that Weber would never be successful with Calipari or Self level talent. Yet, when he inherited that talent, he did pretty well.

That does not mean that Groce would be successful, but Groce could be more successful with better talent and less positional gaps at key positions than what he has shown so far. That does not excuse his performance so far, and those positional gaps in recruiting were certainly his fault, but I am commenting on the "whatever 5" statement moving forward.
 
#7,440      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
#7,441      

ILLHangOut

I
ILLHangOut
Obelix said:
There must be a study somewhere on the effect of coaching searches on airline traffic.
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Ha, and the search agencies have probably already shown that it is cost effective to fund decoy itineraries just to avoid showing their hand while negotiations take place.

I'll take a freeish decoy vacation. Why not?
 
#7,442      

Illini4Reel

I
Champaign, IL.
Illini4Reel
When should we start tracking flights like the "Shaka Watch"? Anyone notice a flight today that left San Antonio (Monty Williams) and landed in Palm Springs (Jerry Colangelo). Then a flight is expected to leave for U of I - Willard Airport tonight and arrive around 11:50pm. Just a coincidence, but still! :pray:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N45YF
 
#7,443      

Deleted member 626650

D
Guest
Deleted member 626650
Obelix said:
He is a superior coach at that level, if you consider all aspects of coaching. No doubt about that. But you can isolate the X's and O's, because while a coach at that level may not have top talent, it may be that he has superior talent compared to other teams "at that level." I watch a lot of basketball but I can't say that I've watched enough of CAA to have a comprehensive evaluation. But overall, including the combination of all aspects, at that level, he is a superior coach.
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Given that he walked into a situation where the previous year before he arrived the team won 7 games or whatever it was says that the talent probably wasn't very good. Then gets them to 20+ wins, I think a turnaround that speaks volumes about his coaching ability irrespective of the level of recruiting.

The initial response was to a poster saying how X's and O's are essentially overrated. I think what Keatts has done disproves that notion.
 
#7,444      

ILLHangOut

I
ILLHangOut
Illini4Reel said:
When should we start tracking flights like the "Shaka Watch"? Anyone notice a flight today that left San Antonio (Monty Williams) and landed in Palm Springs (Jerry Colangelo). Then a flight is expected to leave for U of I - Willard Airport tonight and arrive around 11:50pm. Just a coincidence, but still! :pray:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N45YF
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Monty is my dream hire right now. I can only wish Shahid and Jerry are telling him they're financially committed to supporting him, and he'll be spotted in Champaign at OPH with JW tomorrow morning.
 
#7,445      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Buckets4days said:
Given that he walked into a situation where the previous year before he arrived the team won 7 games or whatever it was says that the talent probably wasn't very good. Then gets them to 20+ wins, I think a turnaround that speaks volumes about his coaching ability irrespective of the level of recruiting.
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You could make then the same argument from the disastrous Weber last season, exacerbated by the loss of Leonard to the NBA draft, and looking at Groce's first year when he defeated expectations and ended up a bad call from the opportunity of a S16.

I would not isolate factors. Maybe you watch too much CAA and have a complete picture. But I'd take Keatts as evident of him making my own top-3 (#2) of coaching candidates that I have posted multiple times. I really like Keatts, but I thought he could not recruit, he would not be my choice. I think he can.
 
#7,446      

ILHoff

I
ILHoff
Buckets4days said:
Given that he walked into a situation where the previous year before he arrived the team won 7 games or whatever it was says that the talent probably wasn't very good. Then gets them to 20+ wins, I think a turnaround that speaks volumes about his coaching ability irrespective of the level of recruiting.

The initial response was to a poster saying how X's and O's are essentially overrated. I think what Keatts has done disproves that notion.
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I hear a lot about Keatts' X and Os and admittedly I've never seen UNCW play. What specifically has he done from an X and Os standpoint? Note: this has nothing to do with his W-L record.
 
#7,447      

illiniknight

I
illiniknight
ILHoff said:
I hear a lot about Keatts' X and Os and admittedly I've never seen UNCW play. What specifically has he done from an X and Os standpoint? Note: this has nothing to do with his W-L record.
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If you want to see UNCW play, they are on CBS sports network right now.
 
#7,449      

Centennial Illini

C
Centennial Illini
We are on the hook for the full amount of JG contract if we choose to fire.

The buyout refers to what another school would have to pay us if they wanted to hire him away.

All coaching contracts are a series of layered one year contracts. JG can walk away at the end of any one year. We on the other hand are obligated for the full amount. Tampa Bay and Lovie being an example of this happening to our benefit

Beckmann was different. We maintained the contract void because of his abusive behavior. He got a settlement and left
 
#7,450      

Rafale

R
Cincinnati
Rafale
Illini4Reel said:
When should we start tracking flights like the "Shaka Watch"? Anyone notice a flight today that left San Antonio (Monty Williams) and landed in Palm Springs (Jerry Colangelo). Then a flight is expected to leave for U of I - Willard Airport tonight and arrive around 11:50pm. Just a coincidence, but still! :pray:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N45YF
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Good detective work here. Monty Willam's would be too good to be true. Let's pray. Are you thinking they need acolangelo's blessing?


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