mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
"I'm sick of changing out mediocre coaches so let's just keep the one we have."
Wut.
2017 Coaching Carousel
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"I'm sick of changing out mediocre coaches so let's just keep the one we have."
Wut.
illinoisfan11
- Peoria, IL
Ummm...you're worried about "rebuilding" if we change coaches. What specifically do you think has been happening here the last 5 years? It's been an ongoing "rebuilding" process with ZERO signs of progress. I'll take my chances with someone new trying to build a winner because it's not happening with Groce.
Cheez
- Sun Prairie WI
This is one terrible yo-yo if we're keeping Groce for a 6th year....
I trust Whitman to make the right decision. The right decision, though, is for Groce to be let go.
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So, if his decision doesn't agree with yours you don't trust him?
Buzz kill much?
Liked the humor, just wanted to ensure those that didn't know JC knew what happened that ended his career.
Cheez
- Sun Prairie WI
I trust him to make the decision to fire Groce. If he doesn't why should we trust him anymore? By keeping Groce, he is acknowledging that "#WeWillWin" is only a slogan and that he doesn't actually believe it.
Groce has had 5 years to prove that he could win. He has failed, and that's more than enough time to know what kind of coach he is. Time to move on.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
Yo yos go down and come back up. I'm still waiting on the back up part.
Oh, you're bad. Bad.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Simply perplexed someone would favor keeping Groce as the Illinois basketball coach, assuming no Tourney berth. Quite simply spitting on all the great history here.
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I think the problem of this thought is the insistence that a plan B coach would fail. He might, he might not. We don't know. What we do know is that Groce has been a failure and shown no reason to think he won't fail going forward. That is why you fire him
You take option B. Current course won't correct otherwise. If the best guys don't want to clean up the mess you find somebody you think is capable. If not rinse, lather, repeat.
If it were me, I just don't know. I lean towards waiting but I understand the other side. My worry is that we get another coach that seems out of his league and that further tarnishes the perception.
Do athletic directors usually travel to these tournaments this early with the team. Whitman just posted a pic on his twitter of him in the plane leaving for DC? Wonder if he'll be on the west coast with the bball team all day or making deals.
Not sure, but I think WDC is on (or at least close to) the East coast.
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Another problem with that line of thinking is if things change to where you can attract your A list coaches that means that your current coach has been successful enough to change the bad perception. BUT if your current coach is 20 games under .500 in conference in 5 years and just continues to coach at that level the perception will only go down meaning your B list coaches might soon start saying no too.
I remember being at the BTT when it was in Indy a long time ago and I saw Guenther there, so it's been done at least once haha.
Just off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure the program wasn't as established as it is(or was) now. Also, without any other research I'm pretty sure Henson didn't have talent like Groce has had in his first five years. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think comparing our current situation to the situation of 30 years ago is applicable.
Henson inherited a train wreck but the analogy isn't altogether inapplicable.
The main difference between Groce and Henson was that Henson had proved himself at New Mexico St with a Final 4 and conference dominance. Groce did not do that in Ohio.
The biggest difference however was that by year 5 Henson was landing massive program changing elite talent. Levi Cobb, Eddie Johnson, Derek Harper, Mark Smith. There was good reason to believe that a Final 4 coach who was hitting it big in recruiting just needed a little more time.
Outside of Timon Groce hasn't landed program changing talent and doesn't have a resume that screams he knows what he is doing
I think the scenario you describe can be solved by dollars.The scenario you describe is a case of increased perceived risk. The solution is compensate for that risk. Some candidates may still decline, but I guarantee you we can get a coach off of our top 5 by increasing the compensation enough.
Groce makes about $1.7 million per year. Our attendance this year decreased by 40,000 - 50,000 fans total. What does that project to in revenue loss for the year? $2million? Groce and the revenue loss due to his failure is costing the department $3-4 million per year as a baseline.
Sean Miller's just signed extension is for $2.9 million per year, and I just read makes him the 6th highest paid coach. From a cost perspective Groce costs Illinois more than Sean Miller costs Arizona. Would Keatts be a top 5 choice? He makes $350k a year.
If Groce stays attendance will fall further. Fans will need to pay a security deposit on their season tickets prior to seeing our hyped class suit up. If they've stopped watching the games do you think they're following recruiting?
Maybe if we start out great next year we'll have good single game sales for the 2nd half of the season. Maybe. In the mean time games against Winthrop will be empty for the entire first half of the year. If I remember correctly we only sold 5,000 tickets to our United Center game! How depressing. That's supposed to be the opportunity for all of the Chicago alums to see their alma mater. People didn't even know the game was being played.
I'm sure every coach would love to move into a program that is rolling, but that's rarely the case. Generally, jobs open because the previous coach failed. Is our rebuild more difficult than what lies ahead at Missouri, Georgia, LSU, NC State?
If your hypothetical scenario is true, then in my opinion the sooner we move on the better.
Sorry, but that point is totally wrong: Eddie Johnson, Mark Smith, Audie Matthews. Rich Adams, Levi Cobb...
Obelix, keep them honest. One other thing I would say about Henson is that he was terrible at in game decision making in his early years and improved to what I would consider average at best. I remember a lot of fans feeling the same way about Henson back in the day as they do about Groce today - there just wasn't the internet on which they could broadcast their opinions.
That is an excellent answer. Dollars will cure a lot of whatever perceived problems there might be, in part by letting a perspective coach know that the University is serious and willing to invest in the success of the program. Low balling the solution would have the opposite effect for all the obvious reasons and prolong the misery. I live in Cincinnati and we have two excellent coaches who might be lured (Chris Mack at Xavier and Mick Cronin at UC). Not sure but believe both make less than Groce (A.K.A. Jim Croce) and could outcoach him any day of the week. Suspect there are more out there than have been discussed in these posts. Let's get the job done right this time. I'm sick of being embarrassed about my school's basketball team's record. I'm a Buckeye football fan but will always support Illinois basketball. Recently, that is becoming VERY hard to do.
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Your memory is the same as mine. People complained about Henson incessantly.
If only we could have it so rough again!
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I, too, have a serious question about a trope that keeps appearing in the scenario pushed by the "Change Paralyzes Me with Fear" Crowd: how do you arrive at the notion that by waiting, the pool of interested candidates will improve? That's at best unlikely and at worst a total fantasy.
Why would someone who doesn't want our job now want it after we've tacked another year (or more) onto our tournament-less streak and apathy has increased?
illinoisfan11
- Peoria, IL
EXACTLY! Thank you. It's mind boggling that anyone still wants to keep Groce after this 5 year dumpster fire.
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