2017 Coaching Carousel

Just some thoughts from me, take it FWIW:

I want Whitman to hire Kevin Keatts and his staff following the season IF Illinois doesn’t make the NCAA Tournament. After watching UNC-W play the other night, I want Keatts. Rising star of a coach, and given his experience...he’s the kind of hire Illinois needs. It’s not just to rejuvenate the campus and the tradition, but the fan base as well. Keatts can make Illini basketball great again!

This should have been a 20+ win season, finishing in the top half of the Big Ten Conference. Another thing to consider is for the majority of the season, the players were healthy, except for JCL with the ankle recently and Te’Jon’s foot. Before this season began, there were high expectations as Illinois was one of the top Big Ten teams in returning experience. They shouldn’t have to worry about fighting for a spot at this stage, yet unfortunately, that’s where Illinois is. It’s pretty sad, and it makes me mad how this season has gone because I believed this was the year. This was the year for the Illini to make the NCAA Tournament as the majority of the players and coaching personnel came back. It’s true there is still a chance, but it will be tough.

I do not understand and/or comprehend, how those who want Groce to coach next year are still satisfied. I think a change needs to occur. Get Keatts or just a rising star of a coach who can coach the X’s and O’s and recruit.

I hope Whitman googles U of Illinois basketball coaches before he comes to his decision regarding John Groce. I figure I only have to watch one more Groce-led defeat, because if he's back next year, it shows that #wewillwin is as hollow and simplistic as 'ten toes in', or 'TnT', or this Ladder grade school prop, and I will simply find other things to do with my time. We all have our limits, and I've simply reached mine.

Thad Matta just got a vote of confidence from Ohio State's AD.

Maybe he can re-hire one of his old assistants...

haasi said:

Good take on Gottfried and NC state job - http://deadspin.com/mark-gottfried-knew-what-he-was-signing-up-for-at-n-c-1793083243


Doesn't sound like an easy place to coach given fan and program expectations of being on par with Duke/UNC in a very tough conference.

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Which is exactly why this job is about as attractive as it's going to get, and we need to put it out there (with lots of $$$) NOW!

- Historical success (including as recently as 2006), proving you can win here
- Rabid fan support that is both hungry to be great again (so it will reward a winning coach with MUCHO love) but also defeated enough to not expect 2001-2006 success just yet (so reasonable expectations, unlike NC State)
- Top coaches reaching retirement in the Big Ten (Izzo, Matta, Ryan already gone) and no true Blue Blood in the conference (sorry, Loosiers)
- A newly renovated facility that at the very worst ranks among the top 4 in the conference
- A new AD that, by all accounts, seems like a great guy to work for
- Administrative stability finally at the U of I
- Same old instate recruiting advantages we've always had
- A seemingly new commitment to supporting our programs with big-time money (think Lovie hire, renovations) that wasn't present in the RG era
- Underrated: a rapidly transforming Champaign-Urbana community that, for the first time since I've been alive at least, is starting to routinely make Best College Town lists
- Routinely covered in the Chicago and St. Louis media markets (and, despite what anyone here says, the coverage is MORE than fair when we don't suck)

All we gotta do is get out the checkbook and have an AD who can articulate what an opportunity there is here ... I think we finally have both, and I just hope enough people in Illini Nation BELEVE that, including some influential donors and Josh Whitman himself. GO ILLINI!

CAHALL15 said:

Attendance slipped this year which is the ultimate fan vote. According to a recent article by the herald review, it seems that Groce and Whitman are alluding to the opposite, if you haven't read it. Whitman is declining interviews until after the season and Groce was asked where he seems himself next year he responded he is focused on Michigan. I believe he's said in other interviews he doesn't know where he will be in a few years.

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I had a friend in Athletic Admin. during the Tepper era. He told me an attendance number to watch for, and I can't recall what it was, but it was something less than capacity (i.e. somewhat conservative). But he said that was the baseline budget number for football attendance. Tepper was well liked in the dept, and he said he was good until the attendance fell below that number. He was right. If you are leading a revenue sport, the entire rest of the athletic dept depends on that revenue.

americanoutlaw11 said:

Isn't this "rumor" that something is wrong with the U of I head coaching job nothing more than unsubstantiated, thought-up message board, hypothetical hogwash???

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It very well could be but we know our top targets didn't want to touch the job last time so maybe there is something to it.

americanoutlaw11 said:

Isn't this "rumor" that something is wrong with the U of I head coaching job nothing more than unsubstantiated, thought-up message board, hypothetical hogwash???

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Illinois had a very good track record in hiring coaches until Mike Thomas came to town. The way he handled Bruce Weber and Ron Zook in their final seasons was absolutely terrible. That combined with Thomas' complete lack of salesmanship, passion, and charisma is why we ended up with a couple of middling MAC coaches.

3. He's also won most of those games. Post-win interviews sound a lot better than post-loss interviews.

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Watch the Iowa post-game(road win) vs the Rutgers post-game.

I'm just trying to connect dots and I'm not pushing for JG to be our coach next year. All I'm saying is I trust JW to do what's best for the program.

Swamp Donkey said:

It very well could be but we know our top targets didn't want to touch the job last time so maybe there is something to it.

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100% speculation on my part, but I can imagine it had something to do with Bruce Weber. He was a coach's coach, (He and Izzo had the bromance.) and he was well known, well liked, and active in the Coaching fraternity. And we make light of it, but he did lead our program to its highest point. I fully agree it was time for him to go. I was one of the later ones to make this decision, but throwing players under the bus and the final year meltdown was just too much. But looking at it from a Coach's perspective, that is how it ends at Illinois for a great guy, a great coach, and a guy that led us to our best moment. Again, 100% pure speculation on my part.

haasi said:

Good take on Gottfried and NC state job - http://deadspin.com/mark-gottfried-knew-what-he-was-signing-up-for-at-n-c-1793083243


Doesn't sound like an easy place to coach given fan and program expectations of being on par with Duke/UNC in a very tough conference.

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This is a fantastic anecdote:

There’s a scene from the ESPN documentary Survive and Advance in which a player tells the rest of the 1983 team the story of Jim Valvano’s first haircut in the Triangle. Valvano walks into the barbershop fresh off replacing Norm Sloan, who won the national championship with the Wolfpack in 1974, and the barber asks him who he is. Valvano tells him and the barber responds by saying that he hopes he does a better job than the last guy. Valvano says, “Well, you know that guy won a national championship.” The barber responds, “Yeah, but just imagine what Dean Smith could have done with that team.”

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Captain Bubbles said:

I want Whitman to hire Kevin Keatts and his staff following the season IF Illinois doesn’t make the NCAA Tournament. After watching UNC-W play the other night, I want Keatts. Rising star of a coach, and given his experience...he’s the kind of hire Illinois needs. It’s not just to rejuvenate the campus and the tradition, but the fan base as well. Keatts can make Illini basketball great again!

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This is the thing. There are options out there that would be improvements and would say yes. Full stop. (I believe Keatts falls into this group)

This isn't like the last time around where we had to hem and haw and say "Wellll this guy DID have our best season in school history, maybe his ceiling is still higher than who we could get..."

drwillini said:

100% speculation on my part, but I can imagine it had something to do with Bruce Weber. He was a coach's coach, (He and Izzo had the bromance.) and he was well known, well liked, and active in the Coaching fraternity. And we make light of it, but he did lead our program to its highest point. I fully agree it was time for him to go. I was one of the later ones to make this decision, but throwing players under the bus and the final year meltdown was just too much. But looking at it from a Coach's perspective, that is how it ends at Illinois for a great guy, a great coach, and a guy that led us to our best moment. Again, 100% pure speculation on my part.

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The way Mike Thomas treated Bruce Weber in his final season was absolutely terrible. I'm sure other coaches saw that and wondered why they'd ever want to work for him. Weber's behavior was far from perfect, but he deserved better from his boss. It's also in stark contrast to what we see with Whitman, which is an AD supporting his coach and staying out of the way. Regardless of what people think about Groce's coaching, there's no denying that he has been a class act throughout this season. I admire that about him.

Swamp Donkey said:

It very well could be but we know our top targets didn't want to touch the job last time so maybe there is something to it.

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1. Didn't take the job is different than didn't want to touch the job. We got the meetings--that says something.

2. Mike Thomas was the AD & Mike Thomas was terrible.

IlliNYC said:

1. Didn't take the job is different than didn't want to touch the job. We got the meetings--that says something.

2. Mike Thomas was the AD & Mike Thomas was terrible.

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Fair enough point! I will root for whoever is the coach next year. My hope is that if a change is made, it is not made in haste because we cannot get the coach that we want.
I stated earlier that I want a coach that pushes the pace and creates excitement (no Keady ball, Please!). I think that is vital to recruiting.

I'm personally on the Keatts train, but seeing Cronin to tossed out there I was wondering what the pros/cons are with him?

CAHALL15 said:

According to a recent article by the herald review, it seems that Groce and Whitman are alluding to the opposite, if you haven't read it.

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Not sure what you mean, what are they alluding to?

Quote: "I was thinking about this...and I think I'm actually ok with mediocrity in my favorite basketball team.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone tries to share a life lesson with me about how high expectations are important in life, let me make it perfectly clear that I am just talking about basketball here. Illinois basketball is, for me, a passive hobby. I enjoy watching the games when I can, I enjoy the banter and 'news' on this site, but it's not super important to me.

Obelix said:

Not sure what you mean, what are they alluding to?

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That Groce will/may not return. It would make Groce's job tons easier when he talks to Mark Smith and other recruits to get a vote of confidence from your boss especially when Groce himself has said that Whitman has been very supportive. Whitman isn't living under rock, I'm sure he's heard plenty of grumpy fans and probably some grumpy donors as well. Why would he not clear the air and say Groce is returning next year? The fact that Whitman talked to Smith and his father privately, yet hasn't endorsed Groce publicly, leads to more speculation.

zpfled said:

I was thinking about this...and I think I'm actually ok with mediocrity in my favorite basketball team.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone tries to share a life lesson with me about how high expectations are important in life, let me make it perfectly clear that I am just talking about basketball here. Illinois basketball is, for me, a passive hobby. I enjoy watching the games when I can, I enjoy the banter and 'news' on this site, but it's not super important to me.

Back to my point. The reason I like Illinois basketball is because I get attached to the players and coaches. Sure, I went to Illinois, but I'm not particularly attached to the school. If I took a hiatus from following Illinois basketball for 5 years and tried to come back and be a fan again, I don't think I'd be that into it. The reason I watch is because I root for the people on the floor and bench.

So I still kind of want Groce to stay, just because I like him and any new coach is, at this point, a stranger who I don't care about. When I look at his record at Illinois, it's pretty dismal. But I see legitimate reasons for the bad seasons, and I see corrections (finally recruiting the PG position well, getting an elite big man). Expecting improvement next year isn't "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" because next year there is a new roster and I believe that players are fundamentally the most important factor in a team's success (coaching is important, sure, but not nearly as important as talent*).

So...yeah, I accept mediocrity, and hope for growth/improvement. I just don't care enough--and never have--to "demand" excellence.

* I recognize that you can have GREAT talent and TERRIBLE coaching and suck, i.e. Lorenzo Romar. But I don't think you can have much success with GREAT coaching and sub-average talent.

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I can honestly say that I don't know anyone, nor have I ever even heard of anyone that watches sports this way.

ILHoff said:

I can honestly say that I don't know anyone, nor have I ever even heard of anyone that watches sports this way.

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For my part, I want Illinois to strive for excellence and make strategic decisions based on unemotional business calculations. But I'll root for them regardless, and it's nice to root for people you like. This is a likable team from top to bottom.

I think everyone knows I'm a hoops junkie, an alum, and a huge fan, but Illini basketball is ultimately not something that affects my life very much. Sports in general is a low-priority pastime. If the Illini lose in demoralizing fashion (like against Rutgers the other day), it doesn't ruin my day. I turn off the TV and basically forget it ever happened until I'm bored at work and make a post or two the next day. I frequently miss important games because my wife wants to get dinner or it's somebody's birthday, or whatever.

It's just sports. It's a distraction. Real life is about family, friends, career, health, political participation, humanitarian work, etc. If Illini basketball is truly one of the most important things in your day-to-day life - if your emotions rise and fall with the wins and losses and it affects your sense of happiness and wellbeing...I guess I think that's weird and unhealthy. This is just for fun. When it's not fun, do something else. I think that's more or less what zpfled was getting at. I'm right there with him. I have opinions about Illini sports, but at the end of the day it's whatever. Perspective.

CAHALL15 said:

That Groce will/may not return. It would make Groce's job tons easier when he talks to Mark Smith and other recruits to get a vote of confidence from your boss especially when Groce himself has said that Whitman has been very supportive. Whitman isn't living under rock, I'm sure he's heard plenty of grumpy fans and probably some grumpy donors as well. Why would he not clear the air and say Groce is returning next year? The fact that Whitman talked to Smith and his father privately, yet hasn't endorsed Groce publicly, leads to more speculation.

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Neither Whitman nor Groce have alluded to anything. Neither is dumb enough to do so.

IntenselyOrange said:

I too cannot relate to those that are afraid of change. But keep in mind that this is a typical human response to every situation. Most people live within 20 miles of their parents. People stay in dead-end jobs rather than taking a chance. Humans are by nature happy to continue on with the status quo.

Now, the most logical argument I have heard for keeping Groce is from zpfled who admits that he does not care if we win. That is great for him, but I want to win. I want to see the kids on the court succeed. It is not enjoyable for me to watch Rutgers, Penn State, Withrop, Yale, North Florida, Chattanooga, Nebraska, etc. beat us. And it boils my blood when we lose to Indiana and Iowa. I wish I was more like zpfled, but my guess is that he is an outlier on this board.

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I want to win too, but mainly I want to watch a game thinking we might win. Then, as long as the game is a fun game, I don't get torn up if we lose. For example, the Winthrop game. I enjoyed that game...even though we lost.

Most importantly, I want the guys I'm rooting for to win. Groce is one of those guys. Again, I am more interested in the individuals that make up the team/staff than I am in the university.

CAHALL15 said:

That Groce will/may not return. It would make Groce's job tons easier when he talks to Mark Smith and other recruits to get a vote of confidence from your boss especially when Groce himself has said that Whitman has been very supportive. Whitman isn't living under rock, I'm sure he's heard plenty of grumpy fans and probably some grumpy donors as well. Why would he not clear the air and say Groce is returning next year? The fact that Whitman talked to Smith and his father privately, yet hasn't endorsed Groce publicly, leads to more speculation.

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If the deal has been tourney or bust, then Whitman can't clear the air until Selection Sunday. I have no idea if that's the deal, obviously.

Roundball Shaman said:

Quote: "I was thinking about this...and I think I'm actually ok with mediocrity in my favorite basketball team.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone tries to share a life lesson with me about how high expectations are important in life, let me make it perfectly clear that I am just talking about basketball here. Illinois basketball is, for me, a passive hobby. I enjoy watching the games when I can, I enjoy the banter and 'news' on this site, but it's not super important to me.

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My Reply:

Each person decides how important (or not) any sport or team is to them. Many people are OK with mediocrity because that is where the sport/team falls in their value system. Nothing wrong with that. But many of us also place a high value on a team because that is what it means to US. Nothing wrong with that either. We are uncomfortable with mediocrity in Illini basketball. There is no reason why a State with the tradition and yearly talent pool that Illinois has should be satisfied with being mediocre. We know the reasons WHY they are mediocre. But they are not GOOD reasons.

For me, Illini basketball should be at least the equal of Duke, NC, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, etc. That is my value system. I also know how critical the fans attitude and expectations are to creating that kind of culture. Fans of those teams would NEVER allow those programs to slip into mediocrity.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, DePaul basketball was the biggest thing around. They spent many weeks near or at the top of the rankings. We all know where DePaul has been since then. Part of the reason was that the fans were OK with the slippage.
Basketball wasn't all that important to them. And Chicago area fans with other sports team choices quickly lost interest.

Fan attitude is a central ingredient in the recipe for success or failure. Some quotes from an article today about Illini football:

“(The culture change is) on the rise, for sure. It’s definitely changed since the last coaching staff left,” senior running back Kendrick Foster said.

“We’re trying for a huge change in culture. We didn’t have a great culture in the past,” junior offensive lineman Nick Allegretti said. “All we’re trying to do is change the culture, make it tougher, stronger program in general that can make it through a Big Ten season.”

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/03/08/lovie-smiths-culture-change-at-illinois-a-work-in-progress/

Culture Change. YES. And not just changing who is yelling at the players from the sidelines next season. Culture change does not happen without great expectations from the fans, by the coaches, and from the players. Duke, NC, Kansas, et al don't do mediocre. Neither should the Illini.

Again, nothing wrong with not expecting a lot out of the Illini if that's where you're at. No Holy Book says that Illini have to be winners. But the lowered expectations crowd has been getting this for a while. For us Great Expectations Crowd, is it time for us to get some of THAT, too?

zpfled said:

Most importantly, I want the guys I'm rooting for to win. Groce is one of those guys. Again, I am more interested in the individuals that make up the team/staff than I am in the university.

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I kind of get this, but kind of don't.

I mean, I am incredibly bummed that Malcolm Hill is likely not going to ever get to play in an NCAA tournament game, which I would imagine you are, too. Don't you want to lessen the likelihood that future players have that experience? I do.

I have a hard time getting too worked up about what the players do/don't do - mostly because being a student athlete is really hard. But I feel like that just ramps up the expectations I have for the coaches to get these guys the experiences they thought they were signing up for when they came to Illinois. That's a hard job, too, but one that comes with pretty exceptional compensation.