2017 Coaching Carousel

sacraig · Mar 10, 2017

Second and Chalmers said:
This idea that Whitman and Groce are bosom buddies, what evidence do we have that that's a thing? The same evidence we had of a "true connection" between Groce and Cliff Alexander?

Obviously those are both two great dudes who are very personable. I am sure they have a much better relationship than Mike Thomas and Bruce Weber did at the same moment. But it's not like the two have some intimate personal history together, they've been coworkers for a year and five days.

I think it is mostly implied by the fact that their body language around each other and their attitudes in public seem to indicate that they are really both cut from the same cloth. Passionate. High integrity. Thinking men. Unfortunately, that cloth does not appear to include "P5 head basketball coach", and only one of those men does not have that as their current job description.

MA Illini · Mar 10, 2017

Lots of smoke in this thread in the last 2 hours . . . sad that it didn't work out with Groce, he has soo many good qualities and by all indications seems like a great person. Now let's see some Whitman magic . . .

SalukiIllini · Mar 10, 2017

MA Illini said:
Lots of smoke in this thread in the last 2 hours . . . sad that it didn't work out with Groce, he has soo many good qualities and by all indications seems like a great person. Now let's see some Whitman magic . . .

Yep, looks like it's a done deal.

USAFILLINI · Mar 10, 2017

que the it's happening gifs.... I'm too slow to figure out how to do it hahah

Jkat00 · Mar 10, 2017

You don't need to have a press conference or official announcement. Kent Brown will do a press release with quotes from Whitman. Done. Move on

Tevo · Mar 10, 2017

foby said:
This. Keatts was in a very unique position of recruiting top caliber talent and simultaneously interacting with top recruiters and watching them interact with players. I think that will give him the skills to be able to keep our incoming class complete.

Seems like the personality and style of the new coach will mean a lot more to the retention of our incoming class than simply the "name". I would bet guys like Frazier didn't even know john Groce's name before he, or more likely an assistant, showed up at one of Frazier's games and introduced himself. I have friends who are fans of other Big Ten teams (granted, not IL-level fans) who don't even know what Groce's first name is. It's not like he's a big NAME coach. Our recruits are all signed (aside from Smith). The new guy WILL get a chance to sit down with them and lay out his plans, make a connection, impress them with his (or her, not ruling out anyone) personality and style. If the coach is a good recruiter, he'll have more than once chance, and I think have pretty good odds are keeping the class intact. Especially when you consider most other schools will already be pretty full-up in term of who they can take. I don't see any reason why Archie Miller, for example, would be much more likely to keep our recruits intact than Keatts.

PrudenceJuris · Mar 10, 2017

SalukiIllini said:
Yep, looks like it's a done deal.

I think it is a done deal. Whitman is the kind of stand-up guy who will tell Groce face to face before anyone else knows. As for when a public announcement is made, I also don't think Whitman will allow rumors to swirl any longer than necessary. He'll want to move forward quickly.

robertgoulet · Mar 10, 2017

Jkat00 said:
You don't need to have a press conference or official announcement. Kent Brown will do a press release with quotes from Whitman. Done. Move on

If that's the way he's going to do it, then best to do it on a Friday late-afternoon.

Foggy Notion · Mar 10, 2017

No bro hugs today?

Obelix · Mar 10, 2017

Jkat00 said:
You don't need to have a press conference or official announcement. Kent Brown will do a press release with quotes from Whitman. Done. Move on

Very rarely is there a press conference, those are mostly reserved for hiring decisions. But there will be an official announcement, actually if Kent Brown issues a UI press release, that is the definition of official announcement. I think you just meant that there will not necessarily be a scheduled press conference where Whitman gets on the podium and announces.

UofI08 · Mar 10, 2017

Mark Tupper just said something interesting on Tay and J. It was with respect to the names people throw out there as replacements, and how many people assume the good candidates would say no. And he's saying if all these good coaches really do have no interest, that's actually another reason that you NEED to make a move. It shows how much the Illini brand has been tarnished and how far the job has fallen.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

CasualObserver05 said:
Why didn't he just can Cubit and start a search? What's different here?

He didn't have the job yet.

Everything is different. Lovie was sui generis. You just can't draw that comparison.

KBLEE · Mar 10, 2017

CasualObserver05 said:
It seems as firing Groce purely because the media and majority of a fan base is fed up seems like a total Mike Thomas move.

Prior to the Groce era, the Illini had only missed the NCAA Tournament in back-to-back years once since the early 80s ('91 / '92). We've now missed the tourney 4 straight years. It is utterly unacceptable.

CasualObserver05 · Mar 10, 2017

You guys are missing my point.

Yes, four straight years of missing the tournament is unacceptable.

Yes, Groce has not got the job done.

Yes, I do believe it is time for the RIGHT replacement.

However, I do not want to be back in another Mike Thomas coaching search where we continue to lose out on coaches.

Groce has a really good team set up for next year, I'm not in favor of taking a chance of giving that up just to hope a new coach can come in and turn things around.

If we have a new coach who can coach and keep this team in tact, have our names called next year on selection Sunday, etc, sign me up!

cmore · Mar 10, 2017

Gregg Marshall. 4.85 mil for 6 years. Make it happen.

Serious Late · Mar 10, 2017

CasualObserver05 said:
You guys are missing my point.

Yes, four straight years of missing the tournament is unacceptable.

Yes, Groce has not got the job done.

Yes, I do believe it is time for the RIGHT replacement.

However, I do not want to be back in another Mike Thomas coaching search where we continue to lose out on coaches.

Groce has a really good team set up for next year, I'm not in favor of taking a chance of giving that up just to hope a new coach can come in and turn things around.

If we have a new coach who can coach and keep this team in tact, have our names called next year on selection Sunday, etc, sign me up!

Can we all just agree not to respond directly to this and stop pretending that it is an argument that needs debated? Please. Everyone knows it's absurd. Let's not fall back into this circular debate. It's a trap folks.

(Quoted only for the sake of reference)

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

CasualObserver05 said:
I completely assumed the only way Groce gets fired is if JW has THE GUY he believes is going to win.

I know that is how it worked in the most recent occasion, but that was truly the exception that proved the rule.

Honestly, perhaps the single biggest factor in the Lovie hire being able to happen in the fashion that it did: Lovie's son is his agent.

Lovie's agent was his son, Whitman hadn't officially started the job yet, it was March (late February really) so the coaching carousel industrial complex wasn't looking for it, and Bill Cubit had no credibility left to damage so the downside risk if it blew up was minimal. The perfect crime.

If you think John Groce will be able to face his players or recruits and their parents if Whitman's failed negotiations with other coaches end up all over the papers you're nuts.

You can do very preliminary feelers. Spoiler alert, those will always come back positive. Everybody loves a job offer.

Obelix · Mar 10, 2017

CasualObserver05 said:
You guys are missing my point.

Yes, four straight years of missing the tournament is unacceptable.

Yes, Groce has not got the job done.

Yes, I do believe it is time for the RIGHT replacement.

However, I do not want to be back in another Mike Thomas coaching search where we continue to lose out on coaches.

Groce has a really good team set up for next year, I'm not in favor of taking a chance of giving that up just to hope a new coach can come in and turn things around.

If we have a new coach who can coach and keep this team in tact, have our names called next year on selection Sunday, etc, sign me up!

It is the same point though, over and over again. Until you make a decision to fire your coach, you do not know a priori who your coach will be. If that was possible, everyone would do it. Every single time, it would be dumb not to.

skyIdub · Mar 10, 2017

Drinking wine coolers is unacceptable.

This is the state of Illinois basketball.

KnoxIllini2 · Mar 10, 2017

CasualObserver05 said:
...

Groce has a really good team set up for next year, I'm not in favor of taking a chance of giving that up just to hope a new coach can come in and turn things around.

If we have a new coach who can coach and keep this team in tact, have our names called next year on selection Sunday, etc, sign me up!

We should take the chance. We are not in a better spot to make the tourney next year. We are losing the 4th highest scoring player in program history and we are hoping a freshman big and a +100 PG will get us there? I'd rather take my chances with a new vision and message thank you.

Mr. Keatts, your train awaits.

GoIllini40 · Mar 10, 2017

My thing is, you can give Groce another year. What happens if Illinois is a bubble team again and just misses the tourney? Do people then chalk it up to a young team and you bring him back again? I've been done with Groce for 3 years now. He's just not a very good coach. Illinois can do so much better.

You just renovated State Farm Center and fan interest is dwindling. You're quickly losing the Chicago market to Northwestern.

UofI08 · Mar 10, 2017

CasualObserver05 said:
So it sounds like those with "inside" knowledge (if that really does exist on this board) seem to believe the firing is coming within the next 1-72 hours.

Do you believe that Whitman then has the replacement ready to go or a pool/search/interview process will begin?

If it is anything other than he has his replacement already I'm confused. Why didn't he just can Cubit and start a search? What's different here?

It seems as firing Groce purely because the media and majority of a fan base is fed up seems like a total Mike Thomas move.

If this firing does happen and we're weeks down the road and options 1, 2, 3, 4 etc don't come, when Groce has a very nice Fresh-Soph group in place along with a top 10 recruiting class, that too me will be very frustrating.

I completely assumed the only way Groce gets fired is if JW has THE GUY he believes is going to win.

I think it's safe to say a firing and hiring similar to Cubit and Lovie will never happen again for Whitman. I don't think he'd actually have the ability to do that again. Whitman was not officially on the job yet, and Lovie was unemployeed. He was able to basically negotiate with Lovie before officially starting as AD. All the background work was already done and all he needed to do was officially start the AD job, officially fire Cubit, and officially hire Lovie.

With Groce, sure you can send out feelers, go through back channels, whatever you want to call it. But no active coach is going to seriously talk to you until the job is actually open. I'm sure Whitman has a list and knows what guys he wants to talk to and who legitimately wants the job. But he can't go much further until the job is actually open.

As far as this goes: "It seems as firing Groce purely because the media and majority of a fan base is fed up seems like a total Mike Thomas move."
Actually it's quite the contrary. If all he listened to was angry fans and media, Groce would've been fired mid-season. Whitman rightfully has given Groce the entire season, and now has 5 years of data to base his decision on. Groce will be fired because he's a bad basketball coach that can't win basketball games. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with fans and media.

ILL in IA · Mar 10, 2017

tjjohnso said:
Top 25 Caliber: Izzo, Belien, Turgeon, Painter, Matta

Probably Belongs Above, But I Just Don't Like Him: Crean

Time Will Tell: Collins, Garrd, Pitino

Good Coaches with Tough Jobs: Miles, Pikiell

Bottom Dwellers: Groce, McCaffery

Side note, I'm starting to suspect Garrd may be Wisconsin's Weber.

I hate the guy, but I think you've undersold McCaffery. I am aware of his conference record. He took over a dumpster fire. They are going to be a really good team in a few years, if not next year.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

Groce has a really good team set up for next year

If Josh Whitman really, genuinely believes this, then he should sign Groce to a contract extension, get out in front of a microphone and make that case firmly and steadfastly. Forget what us meatball fans say.

As a meatball fan, I find the quoted statement utterly farcical. But I'm not at practice every day.

ritster · Mar 10, 2017

EJ33 said:
Excellent post.

If Whitman is #1 who are nos. 2 and 3?

For me #2 is Neal Stoner

2017 Coaching Carousel

sacraig

MA Illini

SalukiIllini

USAFILLINI

Jkat00

Tevo

PrudenceJuris

robertgoulet

IL Board Resident Crooner

Foggy Notion

Obelix

UofI08

Second and Chalmers

KBLEE

CasualObserver05

cmore

Serious Late

Second and Chalmers

Obelix

skyIdub

Winged Warrior

KnoxIllini2

GoIllini40

UofI08

ILL in IA

Second and Chalmers

ritster