2017 Coaching Carousel

Rob07 · Dec 30, 2016

Summarizing my read on several candidates mentioned so far. I haven't included folks who aren't currently head coaches, since there's absolutely no evidence to indicate we would hire an assistant coach.

Attractive, plausible options
* Fred Hoiberg (if fired mid-year)
* Cuonzo Martin
* Archie Miller

Decent, realistic options
* Ben Davidson
* Scott Nagy

Attractive but unlikely to come for this job
* Gregg Marshall
* Chris Mack
* Andy Enfield

No chance they come
* Buzz Williams
* Tony Bennett
* Chris Collins
* Billy Donovan
* Lon Kruger

Too much baggage
* Scott Drew
* Frank Martin

Intriguing, but wrong timing
* Bryce Drew

Intriguing, but past their prime?
* Steve Lavin

Not proven, or not good enough
* King Rice
* Eric Musselman
* Steve Forbes
* Kevin Keatts
* Matt McCall
* Dan Majerle
* Dan Hurley
* Will Wade

Just LOL
* Rick Brunson

Serious Late · Dec 30, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
They haven't. But there are several coaches with markedly better on-paper qualifications than Groce who would walk over broken glass for our job, then and now.

Take Steve Pikiell at Rutgers. Dumpster fires don't get much bigger than that, and a very credible mid-major coach was right there to take the job. You just have to find the right guy.

I agree. At the end of the day, if we aren't dancing in March, then we better find out just how capable Whitman is. There is always hope in a new coach, whereas hope is a dying flame under the current regime.

mycitymytime · Dec 30, 2016

Archie Miller? Would he really come here. I have a friend at Dayton who says that Archie makes $2M a year and is happy. Why leave for champaign for similar money. Would love to get him, but I don't see him leaving for a mediocre job - which is unfortunately where we are currently.

EJ33 · Dec 30, 2016

The limiting factor in our last coaching search was Thomas - not the attractiveness of Illinois.

We have excellent facilities and Groce has done well at recruiting despite having no success on the court. I'm confident Whitman can recruit a really good coach.

I'd prefer not to get a guy like Hoiberg who would be unlikely to stay for the long haul. We really need some continuity to recruit consistently well.

GForce · Dec 30, 2016

EJ33 said:
The limiting factor in our last coaching search was Thomas - not the attractiveness of Illinois.

We have excellent facilities and Groce has done well at recruiting despite having no success on the court. I'm confident Whitman can recruit a really good coach.

I would go a step further and say UI leadership and DIA are more set and stable now. Plus, the deal with Lovie moved us up a notch in our sports commitment level; it shows we're a more serious player now.

cjcastan · Dec 30, 2016

GForce said:
I would go a step further and say UI leadership and DIA are more set and stable now. Plus, the deal with Lovie moved us up a notch in our sports commitment level; it shows we're a more serious player now.

Yeah the fact we have a chancellor now I think is very good point you bring up. Considering the Chancellor and AD are all newer in the job shows a potential new coach will have stability for the medium term.

blmillini · Dec 30, 2016

mycitymytime said:
Archie Miller? Would he really come here. I have a friend at Dayton who says that Archie makes $2M a year and is happy. Why leave for champaign for similar money. Would love to get him, but I don't see him leaving for a mediocre job - which is unfortunately where we are currently.

Dayton has virtually no chance of winning a championship and at Illinois it is at least feasible. This is the reason most mid major coaches eventually leave.

BRy12 · Dec 30, 2016

Been watching Illini basketball since I was 8 years old ('98). I started out as a huge Groce fan and thought his charisma and positive energy and recruiting skills were just what the doctor ordered after Bruce clearly couldn't handle the bright lights of the position.

That being said, it has became incredibly obvious how poorly coached this team is. It's the same song and dance every year. Why do you think we always collapse in January? It's because Groce's offense (or lack thereof) can survive against Non-conf opponents who don't have you scouted as well. Once conf play starts, everyone knows you well. Which means if you don't move off the ball, screen away from the ball, and flat out not move on offense (which we do none of).. you're an easy team to guard. I don't care how much shooting skill and talent we have (which we have more than enough of, see ALionEye recruiting rankings for B1G teams last 4 seasons).

Which brings us to the current state: program purgatory. Even if we barely make the big dance in a down B1G and the easiest conf schedule of any B1G team, how can you honestly have ANY confidence that things will just suddenly change with Tilmon Frazier & Co. With a recruiting class we're bringing in, Illinois basketball should be thinking elite 8's and final 4's in the future. I'd be shocked if he can even get to a sweet 16 before Tilmon bolts to the NBA.

For the first time in my life, I have no interest in watching the team play. Mainly because they make my stomach turn. I bleed orange & blue, but even our wins aren't enjoyable.. I thought this tweet summed it up well

Mike Carpenter @FanboyCarp: "It seems like when Groce's teams win, they tend to do so in spite of a lack of in-game tact."

This.. this is so 100% true. And if it really is the players not listening to Coach Groce, then it's still his fault. They all seem to be buddy-buddy with him, but they don't Respect him. These are not Groce-fearing young men.. A head coach needs to be respected/feared in order for a team to be disciplined. Our team, simply isn't. In year 5.

If we keep doing the same thing with the same coach over and over again, well that's the definition of insanity. And Josh Whitman is not insane. In he I trust. If Groce comes back, it isn't because he's the coach that will bring us back to the top.. it's simply because Whitman doesn't have a clear upgrade in the works. Good day. Go Illini.

:chief:

JamesB · Dec 30, 2016

alexander58 said:
I don't know how you could dislike Groce. I think most are pulling for him. It's just tough to watch the team spinning it's wheels , even as the talent level on the court seems to have improved. I hope the wins start coming , but I'm not optimistic. The culture just seems soft to me. The results have been the same regardless of seeming upgrades in talent. It has been Groundhog Day.

I'm not completely sold on our talent being any better than last year. We have more healthy players, but they look to be limited skill wise on defense.

What concerns me about Groce is that our team defense is awful, and that may come down to coaching. Even Henson's athletically challenged teams could play defense, but Groce's teams appear clueless. Also the team doesn't always "bring it" from an intensity standpoint as we can all agree.

That said, Groce is such a nice guy it's hard to pull for his dismissal. Whenever I'm visiting Champaign and our morning walk takes us by his house when he is pulling out of his driveway, he will stop and roll down his window and chat with us. I give him recruiting advice like "we need bigger guys and guys that can shoot" he'll smile and say we're working on that. Not many coaches would accept such drivel from a fan with good humor. He strikes me as a really good guy, so I still hold out hope that the incoming class can save his job. But that might be my heart talking, not my head.

Maybe the wrong thread for all that, but that's my 2 cents.

Paul Kleevage · Dec 30, 2016

JamesB said:
I'm not completely sold on our talent being any better than last year. We have more healthy players, but they look to be limited skill wise on defense.

What concerns me about Groce is that our team defense is awful, and that may come down to coaching. Even Henson's athletically challenged teams could play defense, but Groce's teams appear clueless. Also the team doesn't always "bring it" from an intensity standpoint as we can all agree.

That said, Groce is such a nice guy it's hard to pull for his dismissal. Whenever I'm visiting Champaign and our morning walk takes us by his house when he is pulling out of his driveway, he will stop and roll down his window and chat with us. I give him recruiting advice like "we need bigger guys and guys that can shoot" he'll smile and say we're working on that. Not many coaches would accept such drivel from a fan with good humor. He strikes me as a really good guy, so I still hold out hope that the incoming class can save his job. But that might be my heart talking, not my head.

Maybe the wrong thread for all that, but that's my 2 cents.

I agree that our defense has been terrible. What I don't understand is Groce's reluctance to play offensively gifted players (DJW, Lucas) when some of our starters are consistently getting destroyed on defense. I could justify Tate playing if he was a defensive stopper, but he was embarrassed on defense against Maryland. We should play to outscore opponents at this point in my opinion. Playing Tate is a complete waste as he passes the ball and buries himself in the corner as the other 4 try to generate offense. Lucas and DJW have an upside that others don't have. Play them now and reap the benefits later. The older players are not going to improve by season's end...younger players will...but they need to play.

ILLINIShox24 · Dec 30, 2016

I think this is the right thread for your reply. I also think many of us feel the same way. It's just probably time to turn the page. 5 years in, limited improvement, no identity, generally underperforming. Would love for the team to turn it around and go dancing, but seems really unlikely at the moment.

mycitymytime · Dec 30, 2016

blmillini said:
Dayton has virtually no chance of winning a championship and at Illinois it is at least feasible. This is the reason most mid major coaches eventually leave.

Agree, but Dayton has made the tourney three years in a row and he makes more money each year. I agree he may eventually leave, but I think we need to recognize that the top mid-major coaches are not taking a turnaround job unless we pay them $4-5m per year.

Serious Late · Dec 31, 2016

UIGrad03 said:
Which pro coaching jobs will be available to him after he's dismissed?

Do you believe he will be fired mid-season? The entire discussion around Hoiberg is 100% academic unless you believe he will be fired during the regular season.

Joel Goodson · Dec 31, 2016

Serious Late said:
Do you believe he will be fired mid-season? The entire discussion around Hoiberg is 100% academic unless you believe he will be fired during the regular season.

Tough call. The Bulls are pretty much imploding. If they don't right the ship, the standard move is to replace the coach. OTOH, Hoiberg has 3.5 years left @ $5M per. But I don't think that will be the ultimate factor.

Will Hoiberg be available in March? Impossible to say, but it's a distinct possibility.

IlliniInOK · Dec 31, 2016

I think the best thing about Hoiberg possibly being fired would be that it's largely not his fault that he was given a team that doesn't fit his style very well. It's an older team that doesn't really run the floor or shoot 3s well, which to my understanding is exactly the opposite of what he wants his team to do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IlliniBacker · Dec 31, 2016

BRy12 said:
Been watching Illini basketball since I was 8 years old ('98). I started out as a huge Groce fan and thought his charisma and positive energy and recruiting skills were just what the doctor ordered after Bruce clearly couldn't handle the bright lights of the position.

That being said, it has became incredibly obvious how poorly coached this team is. It's the same song and dance every year. Why do you think we always collapse in January? It's because Groce's offense (or lack thereof) can survive against Non-conf opponents who don't have you scouted as well. Once conf play starts, everyone knows you well. Which means if you don't move off the ball, screen away from the ball, and flat out not move on offense (which we do none of).. you're an easy team to guard. I don't care how much shooting skill and talent we have (which we have more than enough of, see ALionEye recruiting rankings for B1G teams last 4 seasons).

Which brings us to the current state: program purgatory. Even if we barely make the big dance in a down B1G and the easiest conf schedule of any B1G team, how can you honestly have ANY confidence that things will just suddenly change with Tilmon Frazier & Co. With a recruiting class we're bringing in, Illinois basketball should be thinking elite 8's and final 4's in the future. I'd be shocked if he can even get to a sweet 16 before Tilmon bolts to the NBA.

For the first time in my life, I have no interest in watching the team play. Mainly because they make my stomach turn. I bleed orange & blue, but even our wins aren't enjoyable.. I thought this tweet summed it up well

Mike Carpenter @FanboyCarp: "It seems like when Groce's teams win, they tend to do so in spite of a lack of in-game tact."

This.. this is so 100% true. And if it really is the players not listening to Coach Groce, then it's still his fault. They all seem to be buddy-buddy with him, but they don't Respect him. These are not Groce-fearing young men.. A head coach needs to be respected/feared in order for a team to be disciplined. Our team, simply isn't. In year 5.

If we keep doing the same thing with the same coach over and over again, well that's the definition of insanity. And Josh Whitman is not insane. In he I trust. If Groce comes back, it isn't because he's the coach that will bring us back to the top.. it's simply because Whitman doesn't have a clear upgrade in the works. Good day. Go Illini.

Great post. this pretty much sums up where I'm at too.

I'll take it even further... Make the tourney and go to the Sweet 16 and I still hope we're looking for a new coach. I like the guy, but he's just not the coach to get it done in the long term. I hate watching his teams play.

I have the same hopes for Whitman's approach.

Obelix · Dec 31, 2016

mycitymytime said:
Agree, but Dayton has made the tourney three years in a row and he makes more money each year. I agree he may eventually leave, but I think we need to recognize that the top mid-major coaches are not taking a turnaround job unless we pay them $4-5m per year.

I do not think it is about money. Some coaches know they will be paid no matter what, so it is more about choosing where they want to go. Take Shaka Smart or Brad Stevens for example. It was not about Illinois money last time around. They knew they would get paid, so they could just wait and choose a job of their liking.

The problem we are facing is that we are not the basketball program we used to be, so the Illini job is not about rebuilding a team, it is about rebuilding a basketball program. We have let the program deteriorate too far in the last 10 years.

Illinois is still a great job IMO, but many assume that coaches want to constantly be in a rebuilding mode. That is not always the case.

Martin has started to rebuild Cal, has made inroads recruiting at Cal, he is very well liked. Would he like to leave and start from the beginning again? Has Archie Miller outgrown the Illinois job and can just sit back and wait for a program/job higher in the food chain?

IMO it is easier to attract Miller than Martin. What may help us is that most of the traditionally higher echelon programs seem to have found coaching stability already, so there is less competition and less projected job openings in those programs in the near future.

Illinithad · Dec 31, 2016

IlliniBacker said:
Great post. this pretty much sums up where I'm at too.

I'll take it even further... Make the tourney and go to the Sweet 16 and I still hope we're looking for a new coach. I like the guy, but he's just not the coach to get it done in the long term. I hate watching his teams play.

I have the same hopes for Whitman's approach.

I haven't seen this much hate toward an Illinois basketball coach since Bruce Weber.

gibb52 · Dec 31, 2016

I don't profess to have any insider knowledge but Boeheim is past 70, K is nearing 70, Pitino and Roy are both mid 60's with some baggage at their programs.

Guys like Marshall and Miller might want to bide their time for a couple of years to see how these programs shake out before making a move.

That could be a factor in trying to lure them to Champaign. Or not, who knows, just putting a thought out there.

Obelix · Dec 31, 2016

RichardH said:
I don't think Miller can get to an upper echelon program straight from Dayton. I think in the college bball landscape there are probably the 6 or 7ish elite coaching jobs and then about another 25 jobs all lumped kinda in the same group beneath them. I would put Illinois in that group. Obviously there are different things certain coaches look for and places are better fits for different reasons. But I would look for Miller to land at a place similar to Illinois in profile.

Not sure about that, I think he can, but there may not be as many projected opportunities. If Shaka Smart can get Texas from VCU, Miller can do it from Dayton. He is definitely on the "hot" name coaching list right now. If you look at the mid-major level, Marshall and Miller are the two big names.

coryfor3 · Dec 31, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
Thomas' vision of Illinois Basketball was to find the coach who would go into Chicago and win the recruitments for the Jabari Parkers and Jahlil Okafors, to make Illinois the destination school for the best athletes in Illinois (in every sport). It was for Illinois to be in Illinois what Ohio State is in Ohio.

And we ended up with Groce of all people how? No Chicago connections at all.

coryfor3 · Dec 31, 2016

Jimmy McNulty said:
Something i could probably check if i wasnt so lazy, but how good of a recruiter is Frank Martin? He would be a guy I wouldn't mind vetting, everywhere he goes they seem to win.

He's got some ethical questions. See his ties to Miami high school players and the Beasley recruitment. Also seems frightening on the sidelines. My understanding is he was very interested in Illinois when Groce was hired but interest was not reciprocated.

Second and Chalmers · Dec 31, 2016

coryfor3 said:
And we ended up with Groce of all people how? No Chicago connections at all.

Thomas didn't understand that Chicago is different. Or discounted it anyway.

He would go to any school and it would be the same paint-by-numbers scheme. Youngish, high-energy, workaholic recruiter with head coaching experience and regional/conference ties. That's Brian Kelly, that's Mick Cronin, that's Butch Jones, that's Tim Beckman, that's John Groce. Would have been Dino Babers if he'd kept his job (who is young in affect albeit not in years).

orangeandbluekrush · Dec 31, 2016

Groce will get one more year unless the B1G conference play just becomes unbearable. Am I confident Groce can get it done, 50/50, but I do believe he has the pieces coming in next year to make a world of difference. This situation, in my opinion, is similar to Steve Alford at UCLA. They wanted him gone last year but look what he is doing now. If Groce is gone after this year, it will be hard to keep the class together and then Illinois will continue to stink.

MadSeason · Dec 31, 2016

orangeandbluekrush said:
Groce will get one more year unless the B1G conference play just becomes unbearable. Am I confident Groce can get it done, 50/50, but I do believe he has the pieces coming in next year to make a world of difference. This situation, in my opinion, is similar to Steve Alford at UCLA. They wanted him gone last year but look what he is doing now. If Groce is gone after this year, it will be hard to keep the class together and then Illinois will continue to stink.

Groce needs to show he is guy this year imo. If roster construction is still a problem after 5 years that is entirely on the coach. A good coach shouldn't need the 2005 Illini to achieve great things. A good coach can overcome some adversity and do more with less in years where the roster isn't perfect.

See Tom Izzo for example

2017 Coaching Carousel

Orange Krush '04 & '05