2017 Coaching Carousel

OrangeAndBlues · Jan 28, 2017

HC Illini said:
I have a feeling all of these kids are going to be more excited about playing for the new basketball coach than they are about playing for Groce. Kind of like how the football kids were more excited about playing for Lovie than Cubit. I really hope Mark Smith waits to see who the new coach is before making a decision!

Yeah, this argument about the kids coming for Groce at this point is ASININE.

One of the best players in recent history is going to go all four years without an NCAA tournament appearance. You think recruits are going to be into that? You think they are going to watch him put zero players into the NBA and clamor to come play for Groce?

They want to win and they want to go pro. Period. Illinois offers neither opportunity at the moment. You grab a better coach and show commitment to making the program win and they will stay committed.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 28, 2017

CoalCity said:
Good point. Capel isn't exactly setting the world on fire while he keeps K's chair warm.

Like I said previously, Capel was lucky he had Blake Griffin. Otherwise, his overall coaching pedigree is average to slightly above average. In other words, not much of an improvement over our current predicament.

kuhl84 · Jan 28, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
Yea, I like Krystowiak. He emphasizes fundamentals and defense. He can also recruit bigs. I would prefer him over Musselman, who hasn't proven anything in my eyes.

Obviously knows the game. Recruiting our foot print would be new to him and a huge wild card. Would need to have some good assistants...maybe works best if you keep Walker.

coltjames03 · Jan 28, 2017

kuhl84 said:
Obviously knows the game. Recruiting our foot print would be new to him and a huge wild card. Would need to have some good assistants...maybe works best if you keep Walker.

I think he would be smart enough to get Midwest guys to recruit. Walker would love to keep him. Have loved Utah as far as basketball goes and haven't seen his name on here. Don't understand the Martin talk over a guy like him. Just because he is Midwest guy doesn't mean he can coach.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 28, 2017

kuhl84 said:
Obviously knows the game. Recruiting our foot print would be new to him and a huge wild card. Would need to have some good assistants...maybe works best if you keep Walker.

The other coach K has coached in the NBA before and also has an eye for international talent(he found a gem in Jakob Poetl). Yes, he's not familiar with the Midwest, but he has more connections recruiting out West and such.

He has some kind of a pipeline in Michigan as 2 of his better players come from there, Lorenzo Bonam and Kyle Kuzma. But most of his other recruits come from LA and Utah or other western states.

Captain Bubbles · Jan 28, 2017

I've been doing some thinking about a coach whose name we have not mentioned yet. What about Kermit Davis of Middle Tennessee? He's done a great job coaching the Blue Raiders. As many of you recall, MTSU upset #2 Michigan State last year in the NCAA Tournament.

In case you are wondering about them this season, they are currently 19-3 overall, 9-0 in the C-USA. Their last loss was back on December 21 against Georgia State, and they've won 9 straight since then, including a win against LA Tech earlier today.

Just throwing his name out there for discussion. Here's his bio:

http://www.goblueraiders.com/coaches.aspx?rc=269&path=mbball

homesickalien · Jan 28, 2017

Captain Bubbles said:
I've been doing some thinking about a coach whose name we have not mentioned yet. What about Kermit Davis of Middle Tennessee? He's done a great job coaching the Blue Raiders. As many of you recall, MTSU upset #2 Michigan State last year in the NCAA Tournament.

In case you are wondering about them this season, they are currently 19-3 overall, 9-0 in the C-USA. Their last loss was back on December 21 against Georgia State, and they've won 9 straight since then, including a win against LA Tech earlier today.

Just throwing his name out there for discussion. Here's his bio:

http://www.goblueraiders.com/coaches.aspx?rc=269&path=mbball

His name has been mentioned, but I think he is still lower on the list. Someone to keep an eye on though for a power conference job in the future.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 28, 2017

Captain Bubbles said:
I've been doing some thinking about a coach whose name we have not mentioned yet. What about Kermit Davis of Middle Tennessee? He's done a great job coaching the Blue Raiders. As many of you recall, MTSU upset #2 Michigan State last year in the NCAA Tournament.

In case you are wondering about them this season, they are currently 19-3 overall, 9-0 in the C-USA. Their last loss was back on December 21 against Georgia State, and they've won 9 straight since then, including a win against LA Tech earlier today.

Just throwing his name out there for discussion. Here's his bio:

http://www.goblueraiders.com/coaches.aspx?rc=269&path=mbball

I believe Kermit had a scandal of some kind in his 1 stint at a high major school in the late 80s/early 90s(he was an up-and-coming young coach) and he basically ruined it all with some violations. He worked his way back up the ladder after that to become an assistant and then has been coaching MTSU for a while now, I think close to 15 yrs. He's an older cat too. I don't think he would be much of an improvement over Groce.

Captain Bubbles · Jan 28, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
I believe Kermit had a scandal of some kind in his 1 stint at a high major school in the late 80s/early 90s(he was an up-and-coming young coach) and he basically ruined it all with some violations. He worked his way back up the ladder after that to become an assistant and then has been coaching MTSU for a while now, I think close to 15 yrs. He's an older cat too. I don't think he would be much of an improvement over Groce.

Didn't know that. Apparently, Bill Self really likes him. That's not a bad thing at all.

kuhl84 · Jan 28, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
The other coach K has coached in the NBA before and also has an eye for international talent(he found a gem in Jakob Poetl). Yes, he's not familiar with the Midwest, but he has more connections recruiting out West and such.

He has some kind of a pipeline in Michigan as 2 of his better players come from there, Lorenzo Bonam and Kyle Kuzma. But most of his other recruits come from LA and Utah or other western states.

I would be happy to have him. I like the NBA experience angle, along with the college experience.

I think it's a good sell to recruits. They want to get to the NBA, he knows how.

Honestly wouldn't mind Skiles either. I watched most Magic games when he was the coach. I don't think it was so much that the players hated him, he had issues with management. Basically, Skiles wanted the players to be accountable to play defense or sit. Management wanted the high dollar, bad contracts to play, even if they didn't play defense. Doesn't work at any level of basketball. Skiles knew it and quit. The Magic and our Illini are perfect examples.

I would prefer Krystowiak, but I am interested in the guys with NBA backgrounds as well as Keats.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 28, 2017

kuhl84 said:
I would be happy to have him. I like the NBA experience angle, along with the college experience.

I think it's a good sell to recruits. They want to get to the NBA, he knows how.

Honestly wouldn't mind Skyles either. I watched most Magic games when he was the coach. I don't think it was so much that the players hated him, he had issues with management. Basically, Skyles wanted the players to be accountable to play defense or sit. Management wanted the high dollar, bad contracts to play, even if they didn't play defense. Doesn't work at any level of basketball. Skyles knew it and quit. The Magic and our Illini are perfect examples.

I would prefer Krystowiak, but I am interested in the guys with NBA backgrounds as well as Keats.

I wasn't aware that Skiles would even consider coaching in college. His roots are in the Midwest and B10, so I guess there could be odder things that could happen. He certainly is a defensive mind disciplinarian. I think his approach probably would work better in college than in the NBA just b/c NBA players tend to tune out those kinds of coaches.

kuhl84 · Jan 28, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
I wasn't aware that Skiles would even consider coaching in college. His roots are in the Midwest and B10, so I guess there could be odder things that could happen. He certainly is a defensive mind disciplinarian. I think his approach probably would work better in college than in the NBA just b/c NBA players tend to tune out those kinds of coaches.

Don't know that he would. S&C has mentioned him a couple of times, so I commented. If he could recruit, he would be a great college coach. Huge risk, because he hasn't done it.

Philosophically, is it more risky to hire an NBA coach who hasn't recruited, or a coach who has recruited as an assistant but hasn't coached at the highest level?

CAHALL15 · Jan 28, 2017

cam said:
I think you have a very good point guard in Frazier , if you keep Groce possibly Smith. Tillman is the best big we have had in a long time. They will significantly improve our team

Tilmon.

Bear in mind we lose Hill, Morgan, Abrams, Thorne, and Tate. That's 40+ points to replace. Also, I posted awhile ago about true freshman bigs and their production. On average, they go for about 10ppg and 5-6 boards. These numbers were compiled from rivals top 40 bigs over the last 5 years or so. The only freshman to average 15+ppg was Okafor. Then you have guys like Diallo, Labissere, and Cliff who were MCDAA and didn't do a whole lot.

Additionally, we have a freshman coming off of an ACL tear. Ask yourself how many true freshman are ready to play high major D1 ball especially in the physical Big Ten while also learning a new system? All of these freshman need time in the weight room.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 28, 2017

Iceberg34 said:
Have we discussed a midseason firing? Why not do it, why not put Groce out of his misery.

There is no positive to a midseason firing. Groce has earned a shot at finishing the season out given the last 2 years worth of injuries. Firing him now would not give the Illini a headstart at finding a new coach because most firings and coaching changes usually occur after teams are out of their conference tournaments or after a team is eliminated from the NCAA's.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 28, 2017

kuhl84 said:
Don't know that he would. S&C has mentioned him a couple of times, so I commented. If he could recruit, he would be a great college coach. Huge risk, because he hasn't done it.

Philosophically, is it more risky to hire an NBA coach who hasn't recruited, or a coach who has recruited as an assistant but hasn't coached at the highest level?

Probably more risky to hire someone who hasn't coached at the highest level. Most former NBA coaches who go to college or go back to college have success(Pitino, Calipari, Kruger, Krystowiak, Larry Brown). Others are still to be determined(Avery Johnson, Musselman, Chris Mullin). Others like Tim Floyd have had mixed success. The only I can think of as a major failure was Eddie Jordan.

kuhl84 · Jan 28, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
There is no positive to a midseason firing. Groce has earned a shot at finishing the season out given the last 2 years worth of injuries. Firing him now would not give the Illini a headstart at finding a new coach because most firings and coaching changes usually occur after teams are out of their conference tournaments or after a team is eliminated from the NCAA's.

The only way it makes sense if we plan on hiring a guy who is not coaching college basketball today, say Monty Williams. He could come in now and re-recruit the commits, plus Smith.

Otherwise, you let it ride.

On a side note, how strange would it be to have Monty Williams coaching Monte Williams?

PlayAZ · Jan 28, 2017

Names that can turn around program and ones that can be had?

Krystowiak, would be good choice with talent, not sure recruiting Chicago?

Lavin, Would be good with talent and recruiting, known name/record/recruiting and AAU world

Martin from SC...Known coach, but not sure his track record and traits equate to wins/recruits at Illinois

Martin from Cal...Recruiter, coach (meh), known within circles, should help in cities STL and Chicago as well as west coast now maybe?

Kruger 2.0, Great choice again, knows recruiting circles, coaches like hell, might be open to leaving Okie, doubt we could really get him though.

Keatts: Another up and comer, can the program and fans wait some more?

Miller, could be got, good coach, recruiting circles getting bigger and can always throw the name around if need be...

Drew: Best Candidate all things considered, bring Powell with him and retain Walker to keep recruits in hand

coltjames03 · Jan 28, 2017

PlayAZ said:
Krystowiak, would be good choice with talent, not sure recruiting Chicago?

Lavin, Would be good with talent and recruiting, known name/record/recruiting and AAU world

Martin from SC...Known coach, but not sure his track record and traits equate to wins/recruits at Illinois

Martin from Cal...Recruiter, coach (meh), known within circles, should help in cities STL and Chicago as well as west coast now maybe?

Kruger 2.0, Great choice again, knows recruiting circles, coaches like hell, might be open to leaving Okie, doubt we could really get him though.

Keatts: Another up and comer, can the program and fans wait some more?

Miller, could be got, good coach, recruiting circles getting bigger and can always throw the name around if need be...

Drew: Best Candidate all things considered, bring Powell with him and retain Walker to keep recruits in hand

Like everyone on this list except Martin and Lavin. Lavin doesn't need to coach again he belong on tv now and only on tv. Martin might be able to recruit the area but with his coaching skills not interested in a might because he can't get the big talent from Chicago then he has 0 chance to win

cam · Jan 28, 2017

OrangeAndBlues said:
Yeah, this argument about the kids coming for Groce at this point is ASININE.

One of the best players in recent history is going to go all four years without an NCAA tournament appearance. You think recruits are going to be into that? You think they are going to watch him put zero players into the NBA and clamor to come play for Groce?

They want to win and they want to go pro. Period. Illinois offers neither opportunity at the moment. You grab a better coach and show commitment to making the program win and they will stay committed.

All of the players chose to sign with Groce so I don't think it's ridiculous to think they want to play for him

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 28, 2017

coltjames03 said:
Like everyone on this list except Martin and Lavin. Lavin doesn't need to coach again he belong on tv now and only on tv. Martin might be able to recruit the area but with his coaching skills not interested in a might because he can't get the big talent from Chicago then he has 0 chance to win

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Cuonzo. It is hard to understand the logic behind thinking Keatts is the next big thing but discrediting Cuonzo because he isn't the sexy hire or because his teams don't consistently go to the Elite 8.

cam · Jan 28, 2017

CAHALL15 said:
Tilmon.

Bear in mind we lose Hill, Morgan, Abrams, Thorne, and Tate. That's 40+ points to replace. Also, I posted awhile ago about true freshman bigs and their production. On average, they go for about 10ppg and 5-6 boards. These numbers were compiled from rivals top 40 bigs over the last 5 years or so. The only freshman to average 15+ppg was Okafor. Then you have guys like Diallo, Labissere, and Cliff who were MCDAA and didn't do a whole lot.

Additionally, we have a freshman coming off of an ACL tear. Ask yourself how many true freshman are ready to play high major D1 ball especially in the physical Big Ten while also learning a new system? All of these freshman need time in the weight room.[/QUOTE

I think Tilmon upgrades us definsively by a lot because he can atleast block some shots. Point guards that can penetrate and kick make JCL and Finke much better shooters also. Unbelievably bad basketball last few years now doubt , my point is with good point guards that can create it all gets better no matter who the coach is and the position is getting a lot better with Lucas, Frazier and maybe Smith

FiveStar · Jan 28, 2017

This post is not going to be popular opinion. I've gone back and forth and I've come back to thinking Groce gets one more year. My reasoning is roster balance. We are set to return only 7 scholarship players next year, and the 4(+?) recruits. General consensus on the board is we keep Pickett and DMW no matter what. Frazier and Tilmon are question marks. If Groce is fired and we lose both of them our roster stands to have 9 scholarship players. That's also not even counting potential transfers if Groce is let go, or just because guys want a change of scenery. While a new coach would hopefully be able to come in and grab a couple guys, he'd have a bunch of holes to fill and wouldn't even have a full complement of scholarship players, or he'd be in the place of taking fringe recruits like Tate who bust their !!! for our Illini but are limited.

However, if Groce is fired after next year, there would be more scholarship players. Guys from this year's sophomore class who might be likely to transfer if Groce is fired this year, would be going into their senior year and probably more inclined to stay than sit out a year. A guy like Tilmon might go pro, but if he needs another year it's in his best interest to stay and play one more year as opposed to transfer and sit. The new coach would have a fuller roster and would have a year to recruit to those 4-6 new openings from this current sophomore class, as opposed to having to fill them immediately upon his hire.

I know people have argued to keep Groce for the quality of his class. My argument is based on quantity. I think it's just asking too much for a guy coming in to have to fill that many spots when he could have a fuller roster and only have to fill a couple after next year. With the potential roster hits of Groce being fired after this year, I think it sets us back less if we wait till after next year, even if we have to go through another season of crap. Or maybe in that extra season Groce saves himself.

I'm sure there's a good counterargument out there, so I'm interested in what you guys have to say.

The Pontiff · Jan 29, 2017

UofIChE06 said:
The OP was talking about the UL job should Pitino retire in a year or two.

Huh, guess I missed that. If Louisville is willing to pay $7MM/yr, then maybe Donovan would be in play in 2-3 years. But Pitino Jr. at Louisville is even more laughable than Jr. at Illinois. He'd have to have practically unprecedented success at Minny (Final 4 appearance) to even get a sniff.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CAHALL15 · Jan 29, 2017

FiveStar said:
This post is not going to be popular opinion. I've gone back and forth and I've come back to thinking Groce gets one more year. My reasoning is roster balance. We are set to return only 7 scholarship players next year, and the 4(+?) recruits. General consensus on the board is we keep Pickett and DMW no matter what. Frazier and Tilmon are question marks. If Groce is fired and we lose both of them our roster stands to have 9 scholarship players. That's also not even counting potential transfers if Groce is let go, or just because guys want a change of scenery. While a new coach would hopefully be able to come in and grab a couple guys, he'd have a bunch of holes to fill and wouldn't even have a full complement of scholarship players, or he'd be in the place of taking fringe recruits like Tate who bust their !!! for our Illini but are limited.

However, if Groce is fired after next year, there would be more scholarship players. Guys from this year's sophomore class who might be likely to transfer if Groce is fired this year, would be going into their senior year and probably more inclined to stay than sit out a year. A guy like Tilmon might go pro, but if he needs another year it's in his best interest to stay and play one more year as opposed to transfer and sit. The new coach would have a fuller roster and would have a year to recruit to those 4-6 new openings from this current sophomore class, as opposed to having to fill them immediately upon his hire.

I know people have argued to keep Groce for the quality of his class. My argument is based on quantity. I think it's just asking too much for a guy coming in to have to fill that many spots when he could have a fuller roster and only have to fill a couple after next year. With the potential roster hits of Groce being fired after this year, I think it sets us back less if we wait till after next year, even if we have to go through another season of crap. Or maybe in that extra season Groce saves himself.

I'm sure there's a good counterargument out there, so I'm interested in what you guys have to say.

If you told me we only would have 6 scholarship players if Groce was fired, I'd take it. I'm tired of Groce, his excuses, and general poor performance. I'd take a new coach and a losing season as long as I understood that the team was making improvements and things were changing. I'm ready to get rid of Groce no matter the cost because he has not done anything to show that he should be retained or that things will improve.

If he is fired, I do feel Frazier will stay. We still would only have one true PG on the roster so he would still have playing time available and the same goes for Tilmon. Plus, Frazier has talked about how much he loves the school. However, if Tilmon wanted to leave, he could go almost anywhere and play so to keep him, the new coach would have to quickly convince him that he's a good coach who will get Tilmon where he wants to be and/or keep Walker on staff. Some guys may transfer, but with Groce, it was after the first year that Ibby, Henry, Shaw, and Langford left.

Cheez · Jan 29, 2017

Potentially losing players is always a risk when you fire a coach. It would have been a risk last year had we fired him then. It would be a risk if we fired him this year. It will be a risk if we retain him and fire him after next year.