2017 Coaching Carousel

jmilt7 · Jan 29, 2017

Big Jack said:
I agree as stated above JG deserves to be fired and right now is fine with me. The point I am trying to make is stop and consider this. You fire JG and his staff. I believe you will lose Tilmon and Frazier and get DW and JP. That leaves the new coach with MF, KN, LB, JCL, TJL, DJW, AJ and two incoming freshman and one who is most likely a redshirt candidate. 9 scholarship players and a new coach with no time to recruit for the coming season. I just suggesting we look at all angles first. With this lineup we won't win a game in 17-18 B1G. Then try to recruit.

I honestly don't know what the answer is as does anyone else on this board. I have faith that JW will weigh all options and make the right decision.. I am sick of losing.period!

As far as the highlighted, who knows, but as it has been pointed out in this thread (I think) Frazier first indicated that Groce was his guy, but then amended it to:

Trent @_Trentfrazier1
@JustinRust Its the best school for me and it fits me,why do you think I choose that school? It's my new home and I'm not going anywhere

Which would seem to indicate he is coming no matter what.

Calvin · Jan 29, 2017

OrangeAndBlues said:
It's really not that hard to figure out, honestly.

The coach is bad. He's been bad for five years. You get a new one who is better and the kids will stay. If they don't, you get new kids. He wasn't going to do anything with the ones coming anyway.

He's been bad for the last 3 years, arguably 4. The first year he did a great job turning around a team that gave up on Weber. We had a thin roster year 2, so that one's debatable. But yeah, it's crystal clear where we're at, and it is not hard to see we have to get a new guy. The risk of keeping him far outweighs the chance of things improving on their own, or with marginal changes. At this point, most of us would take hope and a prayer over what we've got.

Second and Chalmers · Jan 29, 2017

Captain Bubbles said:
I've been doing some thinking about a coach whose name we have not mentioned yet. What about Kermit Davis of Middle Tennessee? He's done a great job coaching the Blue Raiders. As many of you recall, MTSU upset #2 Michigan State last year in the NCAA Tournament.

In case you are wondering about them this season, they are currently 19-3 overall, 9-0 in the C-USA. Their last loss was back on December 21 against Georgia State, and they've won 9 straight since then, including a win against LA Tech earlier today.

Just throwing his name out there for discussion. Here's his bio:

http://www.goblueraiders.com/coaches.aspx?rc=269&path=mbball

I think he's a terrific coach, I just have a couple of worries.

1. He's a very southern-fried guy, is that going to be a weird cultural fit? I don't know how much that stuff matters, but it's something to consider.

2. He has leaned heavily on Juco players at MTSU. Knowing that scene can be an asset at the right program, but are we that program? Can those kids get into school.

I have an eye on Davis for Illinois, but even moreso I think he would be the perfect replacement for Johnny Jones at LSU.

Second and Chalmers · Jan 29, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
I wasn't aware that Skiles would even consider coaching in college.

I have no idea whether he would or wouldn't, but he's only 52 and his NBA head coaching days are almost certainly over, which would make college his only chance at a seven figure salary again.

Second and Chalmers · Jan 29, 2017

The Pontiff said:
Don't get Bryce Drew as the best candidate over even most of the guys mentioned on this list.

There will always be posters for whom having played for Illinois (Powell) totally overwhelms all other qualifications.

We love them anyway, but that criteria barely merits refuting.

Second and Chalmers · Jan 29, 2017

OrangeAndBlues said:
It's really not that hard to figure out, honestly.

The coach is bad. He's been bad for five years. You get a new one who is better and the kids will stay. If they don't, you get new kids. He wasn't going to do anything with the ones coming anyway.

Yup.

The fear of going backwards is overwhelming a lot of people's better judgment here. Being able to ignore that fear is one of the few benefits of being in the toilet like we are.

ILHoff · Jan 29, 2017

MrOizo said:
Speaking for myself, JW will need to assess and make the calls with support from whomever he trusts. You could be right, I was just picking a name out of a hat and Keatts could be unqualified for sure. I'm not getting into coaching candidates too much, personally.

My apologies. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I think I'm on the same page where I have a lot of faith in JW hiring the right coach for Illinois.

Second and Chalmers · Jan 29, 2017

Big Jack said:
I have no problem in keeping Groce as I think his positives out weigh the negatives as the leader of the program.

I have to believe he is depending on his assistants to teach and prepare his player considering the amount of time he is recruiting.

Wow, this is quite a post. So now not only is Groce the great recruiter, weak X's and O's archetype (a total fallacy), but now he is only spending his time on what is (allegedly) successful about the program and others have sole control of the failures.

Groce is intimately involved with every step of the process every day with Illinois' basketball team, as is the case with every head coach in the country. And recruiting is a significant time commitment of the assistants as well, perhaps more so than Groce.

There's an interesting issue buried in there though, which is the simple fact that there are only 24 hours in a day and only one head coach and three assistants. Every program, from Kentucky to Rutgers, has the same number of man-hours to distribute. Groce has always been given a lot of plaudits because "no one out works him and his staff on the recruiting trail". If that is true, then every other staff is therefore spending more time and energy on scouting, coaching, film study, game planning, etc.

So there is another factor to consider. Not just what kind of talent you can bring in, but talent per man hour. There's a denominator in that equation.

I heard back in that day that this was a problem with Zook and his original staff. Not that they didn't bring in great talent, but that their recruiting to coaching time ratio was just in a different place from other programs. I don't have any knowledge of that with Groce, but it hardly seems inconceivable.

JoeJ · Jan 29, 2017

As far as transferring out, there may be more if Groce stays than if he goes. DJW and AJ are clearly in Groce's doghouse, perhaps for good reason. Certainly with Hill ahead of them in the rotation can't hang that on Groce. Certainly if JW hires a big name, and even if he does not, there is a reasonable chance of holding on to recruits.

Keatts certainly sounds interesting. Cuonzo sounds interesting. I am just hoping to return to the days when I had to worry about hearing the score on sports radio before I watch the game. I live in MA so unless we are top 25, not going to hear anything.

Wish the best for the Illini, and unless shows a radical turnaround, I feel the time is come. He looked liked someone who knew he was losing his job on the floor yesterday. Glad to see he has some fight, but for whatever reason he can't the fight into the players prior to the start of road games.

GO ILLINI! :illinois:

Is it football season yet?

Obelix · Jan 29, 2017

JoeJ said:
As far as transferring out, there may be more if Groce stays than if he goes. DJW and AJ are clearly in Groce's doghouse, perhaps for good reason.

I do not know about DJW, but AJ has hardly been in Groce's doghouse. Groce has given him multiple opportunities, even starting him in games. Truth is that with Hill at SF, it limits minutes, and Kipper has earned some playing time with his performance that has further limits available minutes.

As far as transferring, it is less if transfers happen (under any coaching scenario) and more on who transfers.

Second and Chalmers · Jan 29, 2017

JoeJ said:
As far as transferring out, there may be more if Groce stays than if he goes.

Could very well be.

The roster-related risk of retaining a coach with no stability or credibility in the job is not being considered enough by those who are letting terror of getting worse drive their thinking in this process.

As far as transferring, it is less if transfers happen (under any coaching scenario) and more on who transfers.

Also true. Transfers in and out are becoming ever more a fact of life in college basketball.

MrOizo · Jan 29, 2017

Big Jack said:
I hold no stock in anything recruits say or post on twitter, snapchat or Facebook. We all know how that has worked for us. But if it is on the internet it must be true.

Weren't you using his comments about Groce being his guy as support for keeping Groce? If yes, then you can't disregard this follow up tweet.

Ga65 · Jan 29, 2017

I must have been watching the wrong game because I did not see a lack of effort in the first half. They were crashing the offensive boards and active. PSU was hitting outside shots, many under pressure. However, they had an athletic big man who bothered MM and he missed shots he normally makes.
Do not believe you are going to be a factor in BIG unless you have an athletic big that protects the rim and an excellent PG to set up your shooters. Our best option at the point is a 3 star who probably would not be starting for any other conference team. JG has failed to recruit a significant option at these two positions. Number of 4 stars is equivalent to the rest of the conference but many more options to recruit. The no of seniors isn't a factor when the critical PG is in the tank.
Am in the camp that is worried about losing these position players by not making the right change.

jmilt7 · Jan 29, 2017

The Pontiff said:
Kruger, while a great coach, feels too much like a redo and I think Illinois would have to overpay.

You mean like getting Illinois in position, i.e., building the foundation, to make a run for the NCAAT title game? Then yes, I would like a redo. I still think he was the best Xs and Os coach we have had. And at least a good recruiter. But I think he is fairly satisfied where he is and well, hate to be ageist but he is something like 63 and probably doesn't want to start over again.

SummerofGeorge · Jan 29, 2017

I think John Groce is a genuinely good man but he has even acknowledged that this is a results driven business. I believe we will move in a different direction once the season is over and that Groce will handle it with grace and class and land on his feet. I do not, however, have any misaligned notion that we are going to find someone who is going to magical transform this program into a final four contender. In fact, I think there is a stronger likelihood we go backwards as I find it hard to believe we will retain all parts of this recruiting class with a new coach. The hire of Lovie does provide glimmer of hope in what could be but JW does not have the same hoops connections.

jmilt7 · Jan 29, 2017

The Fire Thad Matta train is starting to gain steam

http://thespun.com/college-football/the-fire-thad-matta-train-is-starting-to-gain-steam

Some eerily familiar comments from OSU fans

coltjames03 · Jan 29, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Cuonzo. It is hard to understand the logic behind thinking Keatts is the next big thing but discrediting Cuonzo because he isn't the sexy hire or because his teams don't consistently go to the Elite 8.

I would be happy if his teams were even close to competing for conference championship or make the tournament. He has made 2 NCAA tournaments in his coaching career. I'm not even on the Keatts bandwagon. I'm on the Larry krystkowiak bandwagon over any of those

coltjames03 · Jan 29, 2017

Big Jack said:
No I wasn't. I just said it was an option to keep him and fire the assistants. I amastired as every one at the state of the program having been a fan since the days of Dave Schultz(sp).

I just see this getting a lot worse before it gets better.

Now let's just say Groce is kept one year don't see it happening but if it does I hope that something is brought up about Ford needing to be gone. He really brings very little to the program. Bring in a really good x and o guy and someone who can recruit to replace him.

ILHoff · Jan 29, 2017

coltjames03 said:
I would be happy if his teams were even close to competing for conference championship or make the tournament. He has made 2 NCAA tournaments in his coaching career. I'm not even on the Keatts bandwagon. I'm on the Larry krystkowiak bandwagon over any of those

He finished first in the MVC. Krystkowiak has never won a conference championship in his college coaching career.

OrangeAndBlues · Jan 29, 2017

coltjames03 said:
Now let's just say Groce is kept one year don't see it happening but if it does I hope that something is brought up about Ford needing to be gone. He really brings very little to the program. Bring in a really good x and o guy and someone who can recruit to replace him.

This is like trying to bail out the titanic with a red solo cup.

coltjames03 · Jan 29, 2017

ILHoff said:
He finished first in the MVC. Krystkowiak has never won a conference championship in his college coaching career.

At yet Martin still couldn't get that championship team into the NCAA tournament

helppitch · Jan 29, 2017

ILHoff said:
I know I'm in the minority, but I'm confused with the Keatts bandwagon. He's only been a head coach for 2 and a half years. He has zero tournament wins and zero wins against any high major programs. I think UNC-W has played ONE high major program this year and got blown out by Clemson. His tenure at Louisville was during the stripper scandal and for a guy that was heavily involved in their recruiting efforts, it would be obtuse to think he didn't know what was going on over a 3 year period. He's had a great turnaround at UNC-W, but I don't see his style of play translating to the Big Ten (that was actually one of my main concerns with going after Shaka). I just feel like there are other candidates with much better resumes. And those of you that love Keatts please realize this is not an attack on your opinions as I feel Keatts may eventually blow up. I just feel that he's a very risky hire.

Interesting. As for the comments about Shaka, I think the jury is out, but the least of my worries about him when be style of play. Having a different style of play could be a plus. When I read this, I thought of Bob Huggins.
his teams have a different style, but are pretty successful. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked to see them in the elite 8, or the final four.
As for me, I personally love teams that press alot.

CAHALL15 · Jan 29, 2017

Dayman said:
Ohio st seems done with Matta. I wanted him when Weber was hired. I say hire him as head coach and make Groce an assistant and dump Ford. They were a good team together, The Groce kids can finish school in Champaign and not be uprooted, plus we maintain relationships with recruits.

I'm tempted by this, but I'll say no dice. On one hand, I feel like dumping anybody not named Adam Fletcher and possibly Jamal Walker, but this is a thought. I believe that Parham would also be gone and Walker might also since it would then be Matta's team and not Groce's. Even then, we still might lose Tilmon as it seems Tilmon committed to Walker and not Groce. I also don't recall too many coaches who were fired from one school just to take another job in the same conference. I think Matta's big failure was the Jaquan Lyle class and how 4/5 of those highly rated guys transferred out.

Obelix · Jan 29, 2017

Dayman said:
Ohio st seems done with Matta. I wanted him when Weber was hired. I say hire him as head coach and make Groce an assistant and dump Ford. They were a good team together, The Groce kids can finish school in Champaign and not be uprooted, plus we maintain relationships with recruits.

I say we hire Coach K and make Thibs the assistant. It has worked very well for USA basketball and with the Colangelo/UI/USA connection, I believe it is a distinct possibility.

FiveStar · Jan 29, 2017

Obelix said:
I say we hire Coach K and make Thibs the assistant. It has worked very well for USA basketball and with the Colangelo/UI/USA connection, I believe it is a distinct possibility.

This is good but then we'd have to figure out which recruits would pay their own way. Could get messy.