Hiring a guy who's worse than Weber to get a couple of recruits isn't a good idea. Just like keeping Groce to keep Tilmon is a bad plan. Maybe people here are smarter than you think?
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Hiring a guy who's worse than Weber to get a couple of recruits isn't a good idea. Just like keeping Groce to keep Tilmon is a bad plan. Maybe people here are smarter than you think?
Because it takes 1 wiki search to realize hes the most underachieving coach anyone as mentioned on here, possibly in all of basketball. People are frustrated now by the lack of production out of our perceived riches in talent (recruiting rankings wise), imagine when we have top 5 guys come in and we cant even get a winning record.
That being said, I dont think he is the worse candidate being mentioned. People were clamoring for a recruiting guy last coaching cycle, we got one. Now we want a true X's and O's guy, and in 5 years we could be back asking for another recruiting guy.
Theres got to be a nice middle, and in terms of candidates that aren't just pipe dreams, Archie, Cuonzo, and to some extent Keatts seem to be the logical big 3 to keep an eye on. Hard to imagine Romar coming in and having anything other than marginal improvement in recruiting compared to Martin. And Martin's a better coach.
Romar has a ton of talent and he has had almost no notable success. Would not want. Unless I'm missing something? Just look at what he's done with all his talent the last 5-10 years at Washington... some of those years the PAC-12 wasn't good.
Forget Romar
JW should just concentrate on getting Miller or Keatts if he misses out on the bigger names. I would say Martin as a fall back #3 choice since he can recruit well and he is an average X's and )'s guy.
JW should just concentrate on getting Miller or Keatts if he misses out on the bigger names. I would say Martin as a fall back #3 choice since he can recruit well and he is an average X's and )'s guy.
I'm still just waiting for someone to bet their beach house on someone coming or not coming here. Then I'll know this thing is for real.
How soon will we know which direction this takes?
So let's say for argument sake that JW fires Groce around March 12th or 13th if their season ends after the BTT or around March 20th if they make the NIT. How soon will we know after that what direction this is headed in? Will we know the list of candidates within a week? Do you think JW has already made the decision to fire Groce as of today? Does he hold out any hope they win tomorrow and maybe beat NW next week and hold court at home and get to 9-10 wins in the B1G and maybe are a bubble team? If they lose tomorrow I think that decision needs to be made to fire Groce after the season or has that decision been made already?
So let's say for argument sake that JW fires Groce around March 12th or 13th if their season ends after the BTT or around March 20th if they make the NIT. How soon will we know after that what direction this is headed in? Will we know the list of candidates within a week? Do you think JW has already made the decision to fire Groce as of today? Does he hold out any hope they win tomorrow and maybe beat NW next week and hold court at home and get to 9-10 wins in the B1G and maybe are a bubble team? If they lose tomorrow I think that decision needs to be made to fire Groce after the season or has that decision been made already?
I bet my beach house that if we make the NIT, the Illini will participate with John Groce.
But I also bet my beach house that we're going to lose in the First Four. And I also bet my beach house that we're hiring Cuonzo Martin.
I better buy a couple more beach houses.
I wish I had a beach house I could bet
I was thinking preexisting relationships. And even though Guenther screwed up and hired Weber, he is responsible for Kruger and Self, both A coaches. I still think JW thinks a little outside the box. I just wish there was someone here with a little bit of inside knowledge...I eat that stuff up. In a bad season, rumors sustain me LOL
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Just a shot in the dark here, but you don't actually have a beach house, do you?
I bet my beach house that you don't have a beach house.
Wittsdream
- Chicago
Personally I believe some fans are being a bit too dismissive of Martin.
If he comes to Champaign, we stand a great chance at retaining our entire '17 class, and adding Smith to boot. Martin is already recruiting Smith, and Dosunmu from Morgan Park, and Charlie Moore is proving that Martin will allow freshmen lots of PT out of the gate. That's a huge plus in regards to Dosunmu! Then you have the continued Southwestern Conference pipeline in Liddell and Hargrove, along with possibly Finke still in play.
And it seems that most of the caveats people have with him is his under-performance in the NCAA tourney, most notably last season's first round exit as a #4 seed.
Well, the most decorated coach in Illinois history, Lou Henson, had teams that regularly under-performed in the NCAA tourney. 5 times, in fact, during that "golden age" of the 80's alone (Utah, Alabama, Austin Peay, Villanova and Dayton in '89-90). All choke jobs!
Sure, he shepherded some of the most exciting teams in my lifetime, featuring some of the best talent from my hometown of Chicago, but he more often than not failed to live up to expectations in the postseason. Though it cannot be understated that Lou was also one of the unluckiest coaches in the history of the Big Ten, a topic that I'd be more than happy to delve into on a future thread.
Anyway, if Martin can recruit the SWC well, and make inroads into the CPL on a consistent basis, I am willing to live with some occasional under-performance in the postseason as long as we can become relevant again, and at least make the NCAA tourney a reasonable expectation every season once again, instead of an outlier.
In the foreseeable future, as far as recruiting is concerned, he will have that chance beginning as early as next season, IF he can retain our '17 class and add Mark Smith.
And having a 10 man core of Frazier, TJL, Smith, JCL, Pickett, Williams, Nichols, Black, Finke and Tilmon is hardly working with a bare cupboard. In fact, quite the contrary (plenty of raw basketball talent to work with there), and that doesn't even include DaMonte Williams.
If he comes to Champaign, we stand a great chance at retaining our entire '17 class, and adding Smith to boot. Martin is already recruiting Smith, and Dosunmu from Morgan Park, and Charlie Moore is proving that Martin will allow freshmen lots of PT out of the gate. That's a huge plus in regards to Dosunmu! Then you have the continued Southwestern Conference pipeline in Liddell and Hargrove, along with possibly Finke still in play.
And it seems that most of the caveats people have with him is his under-performance in the NCAA tourney, most notably last season's first round exit as a #4 seed.
Well, the most decorated coach in Illinois history, Lou Henson, had teams that regularly under-performed in the NCAA tourney. 5 times, in fact, during that "golden age" of the 80's alone (Utah, Alabama, Austin Peay, Villanova and Dayton in '89-90). All choke jobs!
Sure, he shepherded some of the most exciting teams in my lifetime, featuring some of the best talent from my hometown of Chicago, but he more often than not failed to live up to expectations in the postseason. Though it cannot be understated that Lou was also one of the unluckiest coaches in the history of the Big Ten, a topic that I'd be more than happy to delve into on a future thread.
Anyway, if Martin can recruit the SWC well, and make inroads into the CPL on a consistent basis, I am willing to live with some occasional under-performance in the postseason as long as we can become relevant again, and at least make the NCAA tourney a reasonable expectation every season once again, instead of an outlier.
In the foreseeable future, as far as recruiting is concerned, he will have that chance beginning as early as next season, IF he can retain our '17 class and add Mark Smith.
And having a 10 man core of Frazier, TJL, Smith, JCL, Pickett, Williams, Nichols, Black, Finke and Tilmon is hardly working with a bare cupboard. In fact, quite the contrary (plenty of raw basketball talent to work with there), and that doesn't even include DaMonte Williams.
89illinigrad
- Chicago
Well, we did all stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
We would be totally fine with Cuonzo Martin. Maybe even really good.
I think (hope) most people are getting hung up on whether he can get us regularly back to S16/E8, which is up in the air...as it would be for about 95% of all candidates we could hire.
I think (hope) most people are getting hung up on whether he can get us regularly back to S16/E8, which is up in the air...as it would be for about 95% of all candidates we could hire.
Martin's ceiling
I'm just not sold on Martin's ceiling against Keatts or Archie. I think the guy can obviously recruit well but is he a good enough game coach to get us to a perennial top 4 Big Ten team? I think he would be a decent hire if those first two guys turn us down I would be okay with him.
Personally I believe some fans are being a bit too dismissive of Martin.
If he comes to Champaign, we stand a great chance at retaining our entire '17 class, and adding Smith to boot. Martin is already recruiting Smith, and Dosunmu from Morgan Park, and Charlie Moore is proving that Martin will allow freshmen lots of PT out of the gate. That's a huge plus in regards to Dosunmu! Then you have the continued Southwestern Conference pipeline in Liddell and Hargrove, along with possibly Finke still in play.
And it seems that most of the caveats people have with him is his under-performance in the NCAA tourney, most notably last season's first round exit as a #4 seed.
Well, the most decorated coach in Illinois history, Lou Henson, had teams that regularly under-performed in the NCAA tourney. 5 times, in fact, during that "golden age" of the 80's alone (Utah, Alabama, Austin Peay, Villanova and Dayton in '89-90). All choke jobs!
Sure, he shepherded some of the most exciting teams in my lifetime, featuring some of the best talent from my hometown of Chicago, but he more often than not failed to live up to expectations in the postseason. Though it cannot be understated that Lou was also one of the unluckiest coaches in the history of the Big Ten, a topic that I'd be more than happy to delve into on a future thread.
Anyway, if Martin can recruit the SWC well, and make inroads into the CPL on a consistent basis, I am willing to live with some occasional under-performance in the postseason as long as we can become relevant again, and at least make the NCAA tourney a reasonable expectation every season once again, instead of an outlier.
In the foreseeable future, as far as recruiting is concerned, he will have that chance beginning as early as next season, IF he can retain our '17 class and add Mark Smith.
And having a 10 man core of Frazier, TJL, Smith, JCL, Pickett, Williams, Nichols, Black, Finke and Tilmon is hardly working with a bare cupboard. In fact, quite the contrary (plenty of raw basketball talent to work with there), and that doesn't even include DaMonte Williams.
I'm just not sold on Martin's ceiling against Keatts or Archie. I think the guy can obviously recruit well but is he a good enough game coach to get us to a perennial top 4 Big Ten team? I think he would be a decent hire if those first two guys turn us down I would be okay with him.
People are dismissing Archie, too, and I'm not sure he's not still in play. If NC State opens up, all bets are off. I'd guess they offer and he accepts. But IF Gottfried survives AND Whitman offers $3M, he might bite. And Keatts is still a viable option apparently, but I'm not completely sold just yet. It's tough to decide. If Werner thinks it's either Miznoz or the Illini for Cuonzo, I'm guessing he knows something.
Martin is now 57-32 (27-20) at Cal. This team really ought to finish like 12-6 in conference and make the NCAA's pretty comfortably. Last night's win was huge for making that happen.
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Archie Miller train
So if JW gets turned down by the bigger names like Marshall does he immediately pursue Archie Miller? I agree most of these guys who knows what their ceiling is but I really think Archie might be the best or top 3 mid-major coach out there. I like the idea of Keatts but Archie is much more proven and he is a Midwest guy too. I think Cuonzo would be a good fall back guy if Miller doesn't bite at the job.
So if JW gets turned down by the bigger names like Marshall does he immediately pursue Archie Miller? I agree most of these guys who knows what their ceiling is but I really think Archie might be the best or top 3 mid-major coach out there. I like the idea of Keatts but Archie is much more proven and he is a Midwest guy too. I think Cuonzo would be a good fall back guy if Miller doesn't bite at the job.
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
He might not even pursue Marshall over Miller.
I just want to watch good ball, I don't doubt that he could be a plus recruiter or an improvement over Groce (neither are difficult to achieve at ILL), but I want consistency in the regular season and to be competing for top 5 B10 finishes every year. I don't have a body of work from him that suggests that is something I can reasonably expect, which is why I'm hesitant. He's improved every stop, but he has also left as soon as he gets a good year in, just to explain my "don't have a body of work" comment.
The benefit with Cuonzo is we seem to know what he can achieve at lesser P5 gigs, whereas with Archie, Keatts, etc. we are working with mid-major resumes. That said, when I look at candidates, I want to see high level success at whatever stops they've been at, and Cuonzo doesn't really check that box for me.
What Keatts has done at UNCW is special. What Archie has achieved at Dayton is special. As such, I am a bigger believer in their upside than I am with Cuonzo.
By no means am I anti-Cuonzo, he just isn't my first choice. Part of what plays into that is that he has yet to have a stint at any of 3 jobs go longer than 3 years, which also hampers my ability to really see what he can do over a longer period. I am not at all worried about him leaving after a short period, just for the record, and I excuse Keatts on this point (1) because of his stay at Hargrave, and (2) because of the extent to which and the speed that he turned that UNCW program around -- that's his doing.
So to me, Cuonzo projects as likely having a higher floor, but a lower ceiling (competitive in the conference, less likely to win the conf, essentially). I'm not a big buyer on the NCAAT results deciding if we had a successful season -- seeding does that for me alongside conference finish. We're not at a stage as a program right now where I slave over or stay awake at night thinking about whether we won 0 or 2 games in a row in the tournament, so whether Keatts wins a NCAAT game this year or 3 or none doesn't do anything, his regular seasons have sold me. On the flip side, Cuonzo's sweet 16 run doesn't really do anything for me either.
All that said, I won't be upset if the hire is Cuonzo. The only scenario I'd really be upset with is if we don't make a change.
Personally I believe some fans are being a bit too dismissive of Martin.
If he comes to Champaign, we stand a great chance at retaining our entire '17 class, and adding Smith to boot. Martin is already recruiting Smith, and Dosunmu from Morgan Park, and Charlie Moore is proving that Martin will allow freshmen lots of PT out of the gate. That's a huge plus in regards to Dosunmu! Then you have the continued Southwestern Conference pipeline in Liddell and Hargrove, along with possibly Finke still in play.
And it seems that most of the caveats people have with him is his under-performance in the NCAA tourney, most notably last season's first round exit as a #4 seed.
Well, the most decorated coach in Illinois history, Lou Henson, had teams that regularly under-performed in the NCAA tourney. 5 times, in fact, during that "golden age" of the 80's alone (Utah, Alabama, Austin Peay, Villanova and Dayton in '89-90). All choke jobs!
Sure, he shepherded some of the most exciting teams in my lifetime, featuring some of the best talent from my hometown of Chicago, but he more often than not failed to live up to expectations in the postseason. Though it cannot be understated that Lou was also one of the unluckiest coaches in the history of the Big Ten, a topic that I'd be more than happy to delve into on a future thread.
Anyway, if Martin can recruit the SWC well, and make inroads into the CPL on a consistent basis, I am willing to live with some occasional under-performance in the postseason as long as we can become relevant again, and at least make the NCAA tourney a reasonable expectation every season once again, instead of an outlier.
In the foreseeable future, as far as recruiting is concerned, he will have that chance beginning as early as next season, IF he can retain our '17 class and add Mark Smith.
And having a 10 man core of Frazier, TJL, Smith, JCL, Pickett, Williams, Nichols, Black, Finke and Tilmon is hardly working with a bare cupboard. In fact, quite the contrary (plenty of raw basketball talent to work with there), and that doesn't even include DaMonte Williams.
I agree with this. I think Martin is in the best position to be successful right away at Illinois, and that immediate momentum should not be understated.
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