I can't understand how after just dealing with one coach who had limited experience as a head coach in any college league that now Keatts is considered a good pick. Have we learned nothing from the past 5 years?
2017 Coaching Carousel
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As to the rumors of Monty Williams, I find it hard to believe that Whitman would approach Walker at this time to discuss staying on under Williams. That puts Walker in a terrible position and the coaching community likely wouldn't be too happy with that. I just don't think Whitman would do that to Walker. Also, I don't see them firing Groce before the BIG tourney.
Williams as a candidate is interesting to me because of his player development. I have no doubt he could recruit, and I'd guess the recruiting class would stay intact. Have a hard time believing Tilmon wouldn't want to play for a former NBA coach who developed Anthony Davis.
I think Cuonzo would keep the recruiting class intact also -- and he is a "safe" hire. He'd likely get the team back to respectability again fairly quickly, but I agree with some/many that he might be a high floor/low ceiling guy.
Unlike many it seems, I'm not worried at all about Keatts having no wins against P5 teams. He gets maybe one shot a year. Groce has had 3 shots in the last 10 or so days and doesn't have one. He's a good coach who has had great success, and I think he'll be able to replicate that at Illinois. Can he keep the current class intact? I believe he would be able to keep Frazier, Williams and Pickett in part because of the style he likes to play. Tilmon might look to go elsewhere mainly because I'm guessing he has no connection to Keatts and might want to go somewhere where he has more of a relationship with the coach. But that's not to say he's gone for sure. In 2018, he might not bring in as good a class as Cuonzo because of the relationship aspect, but there are already plenty of kids that are already looking at Illinois that I think he'll be able to reel in. Beyond that I see him having no problem recruiting in the midwest. And I like his upside and what he's been able to accomplish.
Archie Miller is the strongest candidate and would be my first choice. Just not sure Illinois would be his first choice. But I think any of these 4 candidates would be good hires. None of them are home runs, but I'd be happy with any of them -- just happier with some versus others.
Williams as a candidate is interesting to me because of his player development. I have no doubt he could recruit, and I'd guess the recruiting class would stay intact. Have a hard time believing Tilmon wouldn't want to play for a former NBA coach who developed Anthony Davis.
I think Cuonzo would keep the recruiting class intact also -- and he is a "safe" hire. He'd likely get the team back to respectability again fairly quickly, but I agree with some/many that he might be a high floor/low ceiling guy.
Unlike many it seems, I'm not worried at all about Keatts having no wins against P5 teams. He gets maybe one shot a year. Groce has had 3 shots in the last 10 or so days and doesn't have one. He's a good coach who has had great success, and I think he'll be able to replicate that at Illinois. Can he keep the current class intact? I believe he would be able to keep Frazier, Williams and Pickett in part because of the style he likes to play. Tilmon might look to go elsewhere mainly because I'm guessing he has no connection to Keatts and might want to go somewhere where he has more of a relationship with the coach. But that's not to say he's gone for sure. In 2018, he might not bring in as good a class as Cuonzo because of the relationship aspect, but there are already plenty of kids that are already looking at Illinois that I think he'll be able to reel in. Beyond that I see him having no problem recruiting in the midwest. And I like his upside and what he's been able to accomplish.
Archie Miller is the strongest candidate and would be my first choice. Just not sure Illinois would be his first choice. But I think any of these 4 candidates would be good hires. None of them are home runs, but I'd be happy with any of them -- just happier with some versus others.
haasi
- New York
Cuonzo is definitely more inspiring than Groce, but if he did with us what he's done with his teams over the last 8 years as HC, we would not be pleased. NCAA tourney bids 2 of last 8 years, with 3 NITs, 1 CIT, and 2 no shows. 1 sweet 16, 1 first round exit. We're assuming he'd do better with our platform, but some decent coaches (including Weber, also out of the Keady family) have done better *away* from our platform. If he's hired, I'll hope he can recruit like hell. But I won't be inspired. (Keatts OTOH has done extremely well wherever he's been. We don't know what he'll do on our level, but at least we're not assuming he'd do something *differently* here that he hasn't shown before.)
Deleted member 4723
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Agree completely. Leicester winning the EPL was the greatest sporting accomplishment of my lifetime, not just 2016. And I'm old.
I may be misunderstanding, but Weber has done better elsewhere than here?
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I want to win too, just a little gun shy is all(glad I'm not the AD). Keatts or Martin for me and a big no to Monty Williams.
haasi
- New York
At Southern Illinois he did pretty well (includ sweet 16) and has basically achieved same level of success at Kansas State as the level he ultimately took us to. Major success with us initially then dove our program straight into bubble territory. Didn't ultimately end up using our platform to achieve much greater success if any than he has had at lower profile places.
The next coach certainly has some more advantages in being able to get the program back to being a top tier B1G program. Newly renovated arena, an AD who is well-respected, etc.
Also if we can get everyone to stay, we've definitely got some solid pieces that could propel us onto a nice 2-3 year run to kick off the new coaches tenure. 0 seniors on next year's roster.
Projected starters:
Lucas
JCL
Kipper
Leron
Tilmon
Off bench:
Frazier
Jordan/Damonte
DJW
Finke
(Hopefully Epperson or a grad transfer)
Pickett
(Hopefully Smith)
If that roster goes on a nice 2-3 year run, it can generate the momentum that this program needs to propel it back into the top 15 year in and year out.
The program isn't as dead in the water as some casual fans want you to believe.
Also if we can get everyone to stay, we've definitely got some solid pieces that could propel us onto a nice 2-3 year run to kick off the new coaches tenure. 0 seniors on next year's roster.
Projected starters:
Lucas
JCL
Kipper
Leron
Tilmon
Off bench:
Frazier
Jordan/Damonte
DJW
Finke
(Hopefully Epperson or a grad transfer)
Pickett
(Hopefully Smith)
If that roster goes on a nice 2-3 year run, it can generate the momentum that this program needs to propel it back into the top 15 year in and year out.
The program isn't as dead in the water as some casual fans want you to believe.
haasi
- New York
Ya fine, so basically same level of success here as elsewhere, despite the bigger platform. My point is that it's not at all clear that giving someone a bigger platform here than they'd have had elsewhere means that they'll capitalize on it and suddenly start winning at a rate they haven't won elsewhere.
Wait, I didn't dream us going 73-7 from mid 04 to mid 06, did I? That really happened, right?
BlindLoyalty
- FartNoiseMotivation
"If Martin chooses to leave Cal before April 14, 2017, he would pay the university $1.1 million. That falls to $1 million if he leaves between April 15, 2017 and April 14, 2018. If Martin leaves between April 15, 2018 and April 14, 2019, he would owe Cal $750,000."
Groce and Whitman may already have talked and Groce and the staff may know their fate. They are above-board guys and might already be making arrangements.
That's from his original deal, not his extension.
haasi
- New York
unfortunately seems like a parallel universe at this point. but we're losing the essential point - which is that I think we all were ultimately settled that Weber was a bubble level coach, at Illinois or anywhere else. And that there's serious concern about the assumption that Cuonzo will have us performing at a much higher level than the previous programs he's led - and we wouldn't be satisfied with his performance to date.
Who? Les Lancaster? Didn't he pitch for the Cubs at some point in his career?
Better than Illinois has done. 2 NCAA tournament appearances, possibly #3 this year, while we are stuck at 1. This is after he pretty much got rid of several headcases 2 seasons ago including Marcus Foster, who is thriving at Creighton.
If you can't see any differences in their respective resumes other than length of tenure as a HC, I don't know what to tell you.
I agree with all of these points. The pieces are there, and if you get a coach who can do something with AJ/DJW, you really have something with this team next year. The existing pieces in a functional scheme are plenty talented, and while this is not stated to lend credence to the "Keep Groce for Tilmon" crowd, landing Tilmon will be a big deal as the alternative is a 5th year or a less talented HS 5 (or playing really small next year). Beyond next year, less of a big deal whether we landed Tilmon or not, but for instant gratification fans, that'll be a big decision.
Weber and Groce both stink, you don't have to make one "the good one" for the sake of an argument, and this Weber revisionist history based on KSU's dead cat bounce season really needs to stop.
Weber is going to be fired from K-State, and relatively soon, because he's just a so-so major conference basketball coach. So-so isn't good enough for Illinois, and in time it won't be good enough for Kansas State.
Weber is going to be fired from K-State, and relatively soon, because he's just a so-so major conference basketball coach. So-so isn't good enough for Illinois, and in time it won't be good enough for Kansas State.
Greg LeMond winning the 1989 Tour De France sticks out in my mind. He was down by 50 seconds at the start of the last day. He came back during the final day by gaining at least 2 seconds per km, beating a rather smug Laurent Fignon by a grand total of 8 seconds, which was predicted by exactly ZERO people.
I am excited about Frazier and Tilmon but this team will not be competitive next year. These aren't the kind of recruits that are going to be difference makers immediately. If you are expecting anything from Jordan or Williams I think you are kidding yourself. There is a reason they aren't getting minutes on a team that is desperately searching for anything. You can draw up all the X's and O's you want and. Ext year is going to painful. Hopefully another recruiting class and these incoming freshmen becoming sophomores will provide a chance in 18-19.
I find it funny that people are so quick to say "this person would be like a 2nd Bill Self or a 2nd John Groce"... circumstances are different for EVERY coach, even if they have similarities. Keatts wouldn't be the next Bill Self, he would be the first Keatts. That could be a good or bad thing. Maybe he would share Bill Self type success, but actually stay at the program that he returns to greatness... or maybe he shares Groce type of "success" and gets fired in 5 years.
There are several guys that could do well, and several that could do equally bad. There really aren't any guys that I feel are a sure thing at the moment, besides Archie or Hoiberg. Even then, I don't know that we would take over the B10 (more like the top 4 in the conference year in and year out imo). This coaching search is going to be really tough, thankfully Whitman has probably been looking all season.
I think Keatts has a lot of upside, but he is higher risk.
Martin seems like a solid hire, but I don't know how much better he is going to get.
There are several guys that could do well, and several that could do equally bad. There really aren't any guys that I feel are a sure thing at the moment, besides Archie or Hoiberg. Even then, I don't know that we would take over the B10 (more like the top 4 in the conference year in and year out imo). This coaching search is going to be really tough, thankfully Whitman has probably been looking all season.
I think Keatts has a lot of upside, but he is higher risk.
Martin seems like a solid hire, but I don't know how much better he is going to get.
Disagree, I think they make the dance this year and expectations are far lower at KSU vs UI. As long as the AD who hired him is around, I think he's safe.
How are you defining competitive? That roster, without a doubt, can go on the road and not lose by an average of 15 ppg with good coaching. Nobody is saying that we will be a tournament team next year, that is yet to be seen, but what Groce did this year with the experience on this roster was MASSIVELY underachieving.
True, but Fignon had saddle sores. Also at play was LeMond going all technology on the last time trial, reinventing the sport with aerodynamics. Kind of cool to see actually, but 50 seconds in a time trial isn't impossible despite what French media wants to tell you. I'm actually glad they have a ceremonious final stage now...ending on a time trial seems dumb in hindsight.
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