That's an alternative fact.!!
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That's an alternative fact.!!
I was in the "Fire Groce unless an Elite Eight run happens camp" (if there was one) and had been wavering the past week.
Your post has put me right back in the cut ties no matter what because your scenario is way too possible, and that's not a good thing.
Also to consider, for those impressed with the current run.
Team/KenPom/RPI
Iowa/70/73
Northwestern/36/46
MSU/50/45
Nebraska/94/88
None are ranked.
1 is "safely" in the tournament (Northwestern)
One is "likely" in the tournament (MSU)
The win streak is great and I'm cheering for a tourney birth. But it's bad enough that it's such a small sample size, it's also against teams ranging from decent to bad.
I think the 2nd round BTT game is more important than we realize for both the overall outlook of our team AND a tourney birth. We have no signature wins.
Team/KenPom/RPI
Iowa/70/73
Northwestern/36/46
MSU/50/45
Nebraska/94/88
None are ranked.
1 is "safely" in the tournament (Northwestern)
One is "likely" in the tournament (MSU)
The win streak is great and I'm cheering for a tourney birth. But it's bad enough that it's such a small sample size, it's also against teams ranging from decent to bad.
I think the 2nd round BTT game is more important than we realize for both the overall outlook of our team AND a tourney birth. We have no signature wins.
I'm right there with you. That scenario is scary possible.
Cripes, how could he not mention the ladder?
Or Hawaii.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Yep, totally unimpressed with Cuonzo and coming to terms with the fact that I only really wanted him because he'd be a "big name," haha.
To this poster and all others determined to send JG Packing!
1) All of the teams listed have beaten Good teams
2) We could have easily quit and mailed in the rest of the season
3) Something has changed and lets quit nit picking because we're tired of JG
4) The team is playing up to and sometimes above it's real potential so JG is doing something right
5) JG rotations and adjustments and plays after timeouts seem to be much, much better and successful
6) The team as a whole is well prepared and no longer appears to be confused about assignments.
I believe primarily the result of JG and the coaching staff growing and maturing. Granted it sure did take a bit to much time. But be that as it may there's vast improvement and I believe a brighter future then some might be willing to concede! Go Illini
1) All of the teams listed have beaten Good teams
2) We could have easily quit and mailed in the rest of the season
3) Something has changed and lets quit nit picking because we're tired of JG
4) The team is playing up to and sometimes above it's real potential so JG is doing something right
5) JG rotations and adjustments and plays after timeouts seem to be much, much better and successful
6) The team as a whole is well prepared and no longer appears to be confused about assignments.
I believe primarily the result of JG and the coaching staff growing and maturing. Granted it sure did take a bit to much time. But be that as it may there's vast improvement and I believe a brighter future then some might be willing to concede! Go Illini
I hope the decision is more influenced by who he thinks he can hire rather than the next few games. I do not care about the past record because JG should be judged on what he is capable of in the future not the past. I believe most new coaches are going to be in a learning curve in both recruiting and coaching at a different level, conference I.e. If JW believes he has progressed on that curve and can compete he should retain him. I think rehashing his past failures is non productive unless you assume JG is stupid and not capable of learning and improving. That said I can't judge his progress but there certainly has been some based on the recruiting class and the last six games.
1) And your point? Other bubble teams have beaten better teams too.
2) I agree and I'm cheering with them to the end. But we haven't really proven anything other than we haven't given up and we can beat teams about as good as us.
3) We haven't made the tournament the last 3 years and might not this year. Sorry if I'm tired of a coach that has never finished above .500 in conference. And honestly I really hope something has changed, but I want to see a legit big win before I can believe it.
4,5,6) Agreed and I hope we continue and make the tournament.
I think you're misinterpreting my post. I'm not a Groce hater. I actually really like the guy. I'm just saying, we haven't really proven anything other than we can beat some middle of the pack teams. We haven't proven we can beat top quality opponents. Our win streak is against unranked, decent teams. I'd feel 100 times more comfortable believing we turned a corner if our win streak included a Wisconsin, Maryland, or Purdue, instead of Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, MSU.
Hiring him would be a huge mistake. More warts than upside. Let Mizzu have him.
This is a great post. I'm not sure I'm very confident that Groce's next two to three years project to be good enough. But I completely agree that Whitman should be evaluating future-Groce vs future-plan-b.
I think it would be ignorant to believe Groce hasn't learned anything about coaching (including recruiting) in five years that he can apply going forward.
I also think a retention should require staff changes.
The staff must be part of the evaluation. I suspect one of JG's greatest weakness is his loyalty to players and staff. Makes him a good person but not a great administrator. That is his part of being tough.
A while back (maybe couple months ago) someone posted about how the big time boosters were attending some function and made it clear they wanted Groce gone. I'm sure that JW won't be totally persuaded by boosters but I'm sure they're at least some part of the equation.
Anyway, do you guys think JW is gonna wait and base his decision on how this season plays out or do you think it's already way further along with a new hire in mind and Groce possibly already aware of it?
Anyway, do you guys think JW is gonna wait and base his decision on how this season plays out or do you think it's already way further along with a new hire in mind and Groce possibly already aware of it?
It's so hard to think objectively about the coaching situation since this little streak has made it fun to watch games again. I mean it's always fun to some degree, but after years of various unfortunate circumstances it feels really fun to watch the Illini lately.
With the recent tragedy of the Cubs winning a world series and Trump as president, who knows, sneak into the tournament and get a good match-up or 2 while staying hot from 3...
With the recent tragedy of the Cubs winning a world series and Trump as president, who knows, sneak into the tournament and get a good match-up or 2 while staying hot from 3...
I know money is everything but gosh I don't want them deciding who the coach is
KEEP GROCE
It is all coming together how don't you see it ?
Passion-Energy-Leadership these guys care more than you know.
Lucas is super! All reports tonight on Frazier is he is very good and then if you got Mark Smith, good grief we would go from last year 14th in point guard play in the league to possibly 1st. I want him to stay no matter what happens the rest of this year I think the team looks good for next year and you have no seniors. Smith is an important pickup if we can get him, one more playmaker.
peace davids
- Colorado
I agree that I think Whitman makes the call based on his likely replacement. If he feels like he has an inspired candidate, he will move quickly. If not, Groce certainly has a slight argument for retention.
The opposite is likely Kim Anderson at Mizzou. I think he has to be fired regardless of who they think the next coach will be.
1st? You're joking, right? Lucas and Frazier are/were outside the top 100 and it remains to be seen where Smith falls as Rivals as him as 4 star, but others have him outside the top 100. Moreover, it's no guarantee that Smith comes here nor do we know how much either them will produce. These are freshman who don't know the system and Frazier probably isn't ready strength wise for the Big Ten. Frazier isn't going to average 30 points per game his first year and Smith isn't going to average 4 dunks and 7-8 assists per game either.
Here are some other point guards to be aware of who play for other Big Ten teams: McIntosh, Winston (will be a sophomore, but top 30 recruit for the Spartans), Tony Carr, JaQuan Lyle, Anthony Cowan, Nate Mason, Glynn Watson, etc.
Lucas is averaging 5.0ppg and 2.8apg on the season. This rises to 6.2 and 3.6 in conference play, but to say Lucas as a sophomore and a few guys who have never played a college game are suddenly the best in the Big Ten is quite the stretch.
I think by next year Lucas is one of the better point guards in the league and the group will grow into one of the best groups in the league I don't think that is ridiculous. Lucas has fared very well against every point guard he has faced especially the last 6 games, saying the best in the league might be a stretch but certainly a possibility. Mark Smith might come here and other teams seem to want him so I think he's pretty good plus having watched him I agree
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Good conversation from both you guys. I agree with both your points to a degree. I think the guards Cahall mentioned all have at least one advantage in physical measurables that give them the advantage on Lucas, should all basketball skills become even over time.
For this physical measurables reason, I think adding Frazier and smith, who both also have physical measurables better than Lucas gives us a well rounded 3 headed monster to throw out there. A lot of versatility between those 3, and I think because of that, it is not impossible to think that we could have one of the best groups at the 1.
Time will tell.
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