2017 Coaching Carousel

Fighter of the Nightman · Mar 10, 2017

I'll ALWAYS prefer a "splash" of a hire to give me some pride over here in Hawkeyeland, but assuming that doesn't happen (thinking Marshall, Donovan, Bennett, Buzz, even Miller!), I am FULLY on board with either Monty Williams or, to a slightly lesser degree, Keatts. Just ready to start fresh (again).

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

mattcoldagelli said:
I haven't. Neither has Chalmers - in fact, here's this post where he is explicitly using it to refer to some Non-Keatts unknown option:

I've been using "unicorn" inconsistently.

StateFarmCenter · Mar 10, 2017

Illwinsagain said:
Anyone else willing to justify the credentials for any candidate, just so that a change is made? Every time I see a new name, or argument for one of the forum favorites, I am ready to board that train. I must be really beaten down. I am normally more critical than this.

I know what you mean. But there's a lot of truth into basically any move being a positive here. Basically what I'm saying is, I'd trust any of the names mentioned to do better than "3rd place in the MAC East". Really hard to be critical of any hire when that's what we got last time, and that's who the hire will be replacing.

GoIllini40 · Mar 10, 2017

Fighter of the Nightman said:
Our fans are like dogs that were beaten by their previous owners. :tsk: ALWAYS expecting the worst. I could end up being wrong, but common sense absolutely says that if JW were committed to John Groce by this point, he'd say it loud and proud and kill all of this rampant speculation about the program he's in charge of improving.

If he's committed to Groce, why would he have to come out and say it? That will be inferred when Groce is still the head coach past next week

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

Fighter of the Nightman said:
Our fans are like dogs that were beaten by their previous owners. :tsk: ALWAYS expecting the worst. I could end up being wrong, but common sense absolutely says that if JW were committed to John Groce by this point, he'd say it loud and proud and kill all of this rampant speculation about the program he's in charge of improving.

He's made a horrible mistake if he's going to keep Groce and he hasn't done that.

Basically every beat writer has called for Groce's head in the past 24 hours. You can't let that happen for a guy you're going to keep.

IntenselyOrange · Mar 10, 2017

GoIllini40 said:
If he's committed to Groce, why would he have to come out and say it? That will be inferred when Groce is still the head coach past next week

Because the entire fanbase is discussing his potential replacements? Cut the discussion off if a replacement is not coming.

champaignchris · Mar 10, 2017

GoIllini40 said:
If he's committed to Groce, why would he have to come out and say it? That will be inferred when Groce is still the head coach past next week

Why? If Illinois is in the NIT and wins a couple games and the guy Whitman wants is still coaching in the NCAAT, he could quite plausibly still be waiting to make an announcement two weeks from now.

I'll believe Groce is coming back when I hear the words out of Whitman's mouth.

Tygor · Mar 10, 2017

Why would Whitman announce anything today? Firing on Monday makes the most sense when our name isn't called Sunday night and shows the reason is directly related to not making the tournament again.

I would honestly lose some respect and have thoughts about Whitman not being the guy if Groce is retained at this point. Next year Groce would lead this team to a 3-15 conference record.

ILHoff · Mar 10, 2017

Second and Chalmers said:
Absurd.

Would he have 3 conference titles in 3 years after inheriting a dumpster fire? Probably not. But he would absolutely still be on anybody's list.

You just don't see resume's like his, where a guy who's out of central casting as someone who can recruit at the top level takes over a mess and explodes like he has. It's a unicorn of a resume.

Here you go. That coupled with people actually agreeing with it...

FatGreg · Mar 10, 2017

Berg88 said:
Is the consensus that we will not hear a final word on Groce until Monday? I'm confused as to why we would not have that decision this afternoon.

A few factors:

-If Groce was truly coaching for his job in the BTT, as I suspect, there will be value to taking the weekend to get ducks in a row.

-If Whitman is a man of integrity and believes Groce is too (i.e. Groce won't run to the media or immediately start leaking info within his network), it's likely that he'll give him a day to tell his family and staff and another day to meet with his team before an official statement comes down. This is best case for all parties: more time to sort out a delicate personal and professional situation.

-Press cycle: if you want to bury something, release news on a Friday afternoon. If you want to be the main topic on TV/radio shows, make your announcement on a Monday afternoon and then leak compelling rumors through back channels that night. This is only a good plan if you will resolve the open story with an impressive conclusion within a week or so. Let Groce go, make an impressive statement about the direction of the program, start working to finalize terms quickly with Archie Miller, Monty Williams, et al, leak some realistic rumors to keep the talking heads engaged through the week, interface actively with the fan base through the process, officially announce the hire by 3/20 or so, hold a big press conference, flood social media. Illinois basketball is then relevant all the way through the NCAAT. Of course, this kind of aggressive tack could go horribly wrong, so if it plays out assume Groce has secured $2.8mm+/year and encouraging feedback from preferred candidates.

VA Illini Chief · Mar 10, 2017

If it happens then Keatts. He can coach

mattcoldagelli · Mar 10, 2017

GoIllini40 said:
If he's committed to Groce, why would he have to come out and say it? That will be inferred when Groce is still the head coach past next week

Because the narrative right now is "John Groce is going to be fired, and deservedly so" and it gains momentum with each passing minute.

If his mind was made up, he honestly should've made an announcement after the game yesterday. I know that's easier said than done, but from a pure optics standpoint, time is your enemy here.

Adnarel · Mar 10, 2017

GoIllini40 said:
https://twitter.com/JWernerScout/status/840224343808446464

Glad to see this. It is wholly appropriate for Whitman to say nothing until the season is definitively over.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

ILHoff said:
Here you go. That coupled with people actually agreeing with it...

It IS a unicorn of a resume. Find me a comp.

UofI08 · Mar 10, 2017

If Whitman was keeping Groce, the UI spokeman would not be saying, "No announcement of any kind today."

He's done. Every beat writer has basically called for his firing and 90% of the fanbase is anticipating it.

Smacko · Mar 10, 2017

Adnarel said:
Glad to see this. It is wholly appropriate for Whitman to say nothing until the season is definitively over.

It makes sense, especially if Whitman told Groce his job hinged on getting into the tournament. Fair to at least wait until we are officially not in the tournament. I would hope he has started making calls already though.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

mattcoldagelli said:
from a pure optics standpoint, time is your enemy here.

Right.

If the Michigan State win on Senior Night was all Whitman needed to see, announce it that night.

Sure, he would have been depantsed by what came after, but not nearly as depantsed as he'll be if he makes the same decision now.

illinoisfan11 · Mar 10, 2017

Fighter of the Nightman said:
Our fans are like dogs that were beaten by their previous owners. :tsk: ALWAYS expecting the worst. I could end up being wrong, but common sense absolutely says that if JW were committed to John Groce by this point, he'd say it loud and proud and kill all of this rampant speculation about the program he's in charge of improving.

Exactly. The team is flying back to Champaign today. He doesn't want to release a statement firing Groce before he can get back home. That's my opinion at least.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 10, 2017

Of the three options (now, after Selection Sunday, or after the postseason), the Sunday option seems clearly the worst to me.

The level of fecklessness of letting the selection committee and the public perception of a random, miracle, undeserved (and totally external to Groce or the actual work of the basketball program) tournament bid affect your thinking for the leadership of your program would be excoriated by the media, and rightly so.

TownieMatt · Mar 10, 2017

People reading way too much into Werner's tweet. The team is flying back today. He's not going to blindside them by firing Groce when the team isn't even in the state. I still think Monday is the day. There's no practical advantage to firing Groce today. Take the weekend to meet with Groce and some players, see how the tournament selections go, then pull the trigger Monday.

Amelot · Mar 10, 2017

Whitman is a smart guy. He's not just looking at the BTT or whether or not we are just barely Dancing because a couple of bounces happened to go our way. He's looking at five-years worth of data and looking at all of the components: recruiting, program management, Xs and Os, in-game management and adaptation, player management (on and off court), etc. Whitman's known for awhile, barring any miraculous run, what he is going to do. No need to try to over-read tea leaves on whether an announcement is coming today or Monday. Groce is gone, and Whitman is positioning himself for the next guy.

FatGreg · Mar 10, 2017

aluma said:
I will be appalled if we retain Groce. It truly has become my worst nightmare for Illinois basketball. I can't possibly see retaining him as a solution that leads to good things for our beloved university. I keep have this feeling that Groce won't be fired... Please say it isn't so

It isn't so.

Adnarel · Mar 10, 2017

I would eat every pair of socks I own if:

1) Whitman has made the decision to retain Groce.
2) Whitman has made the decision to fire Groce and has not yet started sending out feelers.

I think JW has got this one under control, gents.

UofI08 · Mar 10, 2017

TownieMatt said:
People reading way too much into Werner's tweet. The team is flying back today. He's not going to blindside them by firing Groce when the team isn't even in the state. I still think Monday is the day. There's no practical advantage to firing Groce today. Take the weekend to meet with Groce and some players, see how the tournament selections go, then pull the trigger Monday.

I think people are reading into it the right amount. If the decision was to keep Groce, it would be announced by today at the latest. If the decision is to move on from Groce, it's totally understandable to wait until everyone gets back to UI and you can have a face-to-face and give him time to tell his family and team before making the announcement public.

The Dave · Mar 10, 2017

I was on the Fire Webber train far before most people. I hated knowing that in any close game he was going to get out-coached repeatedly (see Ryan, Bo). However, we've now taken a HUGE step back and I just pray that we don't lose each game, not even REALLY expecting them to be close. That's a huge step back over 5 years.

I don't see how people think that a single recruiting class should be more important than rebuilding the program. That's short sighted thinking. If you wan't us to be a perennial Top 20 team and in the NCAA's you need to take the long term view, not just what is happening next year.

Plus we don't KNOW that we'll lose any/all of our recruits. If JW pull's another Lovie there's nothing to worry about. I want the right guy to build a program, not a one-hit wonder (like Groce was).

2017 Coaching Carousel

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