2019-20 Coaching Discussion/Carousel

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#801      
Ramrod2010
Madco Illini said:
One random outside the box hire I’d like but is risky, kellen Moore, OC cowboys. He’s shot up the ranks fast. Probably to risky and green. He seems destined for stardom. OC in the nfl is probably a step up for college HC.
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When I heard his name called out a couple of weeks ago I had to double check it was that Kellen Moore. I was surprised.
 
#802      
ChiefGritty
Madco Illini said:
One random outside the box hire I’d like but is risky, kellen Moore, OC cowboys. He’s shot up the ranks fast. Probably to risky and green. He seems destined for stardom. OC in the nfl is probably a step up for college HC.
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I think that's an instructive example of the difference between a stock in the profession of coaching that's worth investing in and someone worth considering to hire as the head football coach at the University of Illinois in two months.

Bill Belichick will go down as one of the greatest football coaches of all time. Does that mean we should have hired him to replace Gary Moeller in 1979 when he was the special teams coach of the NY Giants? Would he have been our Hayden Fry? Bill Parcells recognized future greatness in him at that moment in time, but there's no reason to think he would have been a successful fit leading a Big Ten team then, or frankly even now. He was a failed NFL head coach over a decade on from then, even with Nick Saban as his DC! (and Kirk Ferentz as his OL coach, fun fact).

It's not just catching a bright spark. It's finding the right guy at the right time.

Kellen Moore is not "too risky" or "too outside the box". He's just not qualified for it, and *even if you're right* that he's the next great coach, you'll almost certainly still be wrong. Pete Carroll really was the guy the Jets thought he was when he was given the job as a green, sunny ball of energy in 1994. He just wasn't that guy yet.

Or, Monte Kiffin really was a defensive genius when NC State hired him as head coach in 1980. That just wasn't the context in which he'd reveal what a mastermind he was.
 
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#803      
Deleted member 654622
ChiefGritty said:
I think that's an instructive example of the difference between a stock in the profession of coaching that's worth investing in and someone worth considering to hire as the head football coach at the University of Illinois in two months.

Bill Belichick will go down as one of the greatest football coaches of all time. Does that mean we should have hired him to replace Gary Moeller in 1979 when he was the special teams coach of the NY Giants? Would he have been our Hayden Fry? Bill Parcells recognized future greatness in him at that moment in time, but there's no reason to think he would have been a successful fit leading a Big Ten team then, or frankly even now. He was a failed NFL head coach over a decade on from then, even with Nick Saban as his DC! (and Kirk Ferentz as his OL coach, fun fact).

It's not just catching a bright spark. It's finding the right guy at the right time.

Kellen Moore is not "too risky" or "too outside the box". He's just not qualified for it, and *even if you're right* that he's the next great coach, you'll almost certainly still be wrong. Pete Carroll really was the guy the Jets thought he was when he was given the job as a green, sunny ball of energy in 1994. He just wasn't that guy yet.

Or, Monte Kiffin really was a defensive genius when NC State hired him as head coach in 1980. That just wasn't the context in which he'd reveal what a mastermind he was.
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Basically you need a coach that can set a culture and talent that will accept and preach it. Then you have a great program
 
#804      
Madco Illini
ChiefGritty said:
I think that's an instructive example of the difference between a stock in the profession of coaching that's worth investing in and someone worth considering to hire as the head football coach at the University of Illinois in two months.

Bill Belichick will go down as one of the greatest football coaches of all time. Does that mean we should have hired him to replace Gary Moeller in 1979 when he was the special teams coach of the NY Giants? Would he have been our Hayden Fry? Bill Parcells recognized future greatness in him at that moment in time, but there's no reason to think he would have been a successful fit leading a Big Ten team then, or frankly even now. He was a failed NFL head coach over a decade on from then, even with Nick Saban as his DC! (and Kirk Ferentz as his OL coach, fun fact).

It's not just catching a bright spark. It's finding the right guy at the right time.

Kellen Moore is not "too risky" or "too outside the box". He's just not qualified for it, and *even if you're right* that he's the next great coach, you'll almost certainly still be wrong. Pete Carroll really was the guy the Jets thought he was when he was given the job as a green, sunny ball of energy in 1994. He just wasn't that guy yet.

Or, Monte Kiffin really was a defensive genius when NC State hired him as head coach in 1980. That just wasn't the context in which he'd reveal what a mastermind he was.
Click to expand...
You’re basically echoing my thoughts. Being “too risky” and green are just other words for unqualified in my mind. Even if he did get hired I’d be shocked and have a mix of excitement (young boy genius) and angst. He’d either be Lincoln Riley or the worst fb coach we have hired.

I do find it funny that someday Kellen will google himself to find out he was brought up for the Illini job in 2019 and have a good laugh.

Where do I accept my trophy for most outside the box hire?
 
#805      
Deleted member 654622
Madco Illini said:
You’re basically echoing my thoughts. Being “too risky” and green are just other words for unqualified in my mind. Even if he did get hired I’d be shocked and have a mix of excitement (young boy genius) and angst. He’d either be Lincoln Riley or the worst fb coach we have hired.

I do find it funny that someday Kellen will google himself to find out he was brought up for the Illini job in 2019 and have a good laugh.

Where do I accept my trophy for most outside the box hire?
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That bar is currently at risk at being set extremely low
 
#806      
Illinifan533
BZuppke said:
I guess I don’t understand the Luke Fickell love. He could be the next great coach but he’s hardly a proven commodity. He could tank here like lots of coaches who had a couple of good years do - Fuentes et al.
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Well, that's the risk P5 programs take when they take guys who only had 1 or 2 great season at G5 program. It also depends what your criteria for "proven" is. Darrell Hazell was coming off a great year in only his 2nd season at Kent State when he was hired by Purdue. We all know how that turned out. Meanwhile, Dave Doeren only coached for 2 years at Northern Illinois, albeit both seasons with 10+ wins, and I think we'd all be happy if we could find a coach who could build a program like what NC State is right now. If Fickell has another 9+ win season, then I think that will elevate his coaching stock.
 
#807      
oldschool51
BZuppke said:
I guess I don’t understand the Luke Fickell love. He could be the next great coach but he’s hardly a proven commodity. He could tank here like lots of coaches who had a couple of good years do - Fuentes et al.

I’ll add that the option talk is interesting but Illinois will never go that route. It’s not going to happen.
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Was he not 7-5 in his lone year at OSU
 
#808      
SycIllini
ChiefGritty said:
Nice win for Rod Carey and Temple last night at East Carolina to get to 4-1. There's a guy who's had a lot of success in this state, and he's kidnapped Thad Ward to boot.

Restore the ancien regime to Littyville?

Here's Temple's upcoming schedule: Memphis, @SMU, UCF, @USF, Tulane, @Cincinnati

If there are three wins in there that would be pretty impressive. The AAC is low-key kinda good now.
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Fwiw.. living near NIU I always got the impression that no one here thought Carey lived up to Doeren or Kill as head coach. Successful but, not as up and coming as those two. What he has done at Temple so far looks pretty good though.
 
#809      
ILL_INI
Dude said:
This is the discussion we all had this past off season. Someone made some awesome charts for us that pointed our recruiting rankings compared to other B1G teams. I was on the side that a few high end talented players could swing a game in our favor over a team with quality depth. I was hoping to see what that was going to look like this year. In particular, when we go up against Northwestern
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I was hoping to show that this year, breaking it down by class, too, but my dad's health is taking up my free time. And it looks like I'll be watching the game in the hospital again today. Honestly, I wanted to go several years back for Northwestern/Illinois matchups if I could.
 
#811      
ChiefGritty
BZuppke said:
I guess I don’t understand the Luke Fickell love. He could be the next great coach but he’s hardly a proven commodity. He could tank here like lots of coaches who had a couple of good years do - Fuentes et al.
Click to expand...

Cincinnati is some way's better than Illinois right now. All we'd be asking him to do is what he's already done.

Big win for them last night over UCF. Maybe not a big win for Luke Fickell's coaching stock ironically, one big selling point for him is that he's put together a great, P5-ready staff at UC. Well, there's pretty much no doubt at this point that the jewel of that staff, DC Marcus Freeman, would be his successor as HC.
 
#812      
mhuml32
Fickell would be an incredible hire for Illinois. If you're Fickell, would you be willing to leave Cincinnati (likely $3.25+ million/year for an extension if he stays?) to take on the Illinois job? It's a pay raise, but wouldn't you rather get the Virginia Tech, Tennessee, USC jobs? Same thoughts for Norvell and Aranda
 
#813      
mhuml32
ChiefGritty said:
I think that's an instructive example of the difference between a stock in the profession of coaching that's worth investing in and someone worth considering to hire as the head football coach at the University of Illinois in two months.

Bill Belichick will go down as one of the greatest football coaches of all time. Does that mean we should have hired him to replace Gary Moeller in 1979 when he was the special teams coach of the NY Giants? Would he have been our Hayden Fry? Bill Parcells recognized future greatness in him at that moment in time, but there's no reason to think he would have been a successful fit leading a Big Ten team then, or frankly even now. He was a failed NFL head coach over a decade on from then, even with Nick Saban as his DC! (and Kirk Ferentz as his OL coach, fun fact).

It's not just catching a bright spark. It's finding the right guy at the right time.

Kellen Moore is not "too risky" or "too outside the box". He's just not qualified for it, and *even if you're right* that he's the next great coach, you'll almost certainly still be wrong. Pete Carroll really was the guy the Jets thought he was when he was given the job as a green, sunny ball of energy in 1994. He just wasn't that guy yet.

Or, Monte Kiffin really was a defensive genius when NC State hired him as head coach in 1980. That just wasn't the context in which he'd reveal what a mastermind he was.
Click to expand...

I disagree. If Illinois hired Kellen Moore, he could be successful. He's more of a risk than other names listed. The issue is he seems focused on a coaching career in the NFL and, with their greater focus on cutting edge offenses, he's likely getting a HC opportunity either next year or the year after.
 
#814      
Deleted member 654622
ILL_INI said:
I was hoping to show that this year, breaking it down by class, too, but my dad's health is taking up my free time. And it looks like I'll be watching the game in the hospital again today. Honestly, I wanted to go several years back for Northwestern/Illinois matchups if I could.
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Sorry to hear about your father.
 
#815      
IlliniFisherman
Seems like Illinois is career suicide for any coaching prospect. We need to find someone under the radar who would be willing to come here and build a culture. Question is, can we find that person
 
#816      
ChiefGritty
mhuml32 said:
I disagree. If Illinois hired Kellen Moore, he could be successful.
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Hey, so could Barry Switzer, so could Tom Brady, so could Miles Smith, the world is a funny old place.

The issue is he seems focused on a coaching career in the NFL and, with their greater focus on cutting edge offenses, he's likely getting a HC opportunity either next year or the year after.
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That seems to be his focus given that that's where he's been for his entire career as a football coach, which consists of one season as a QB coach and FOUR GAMES as an offensive coordinator?

The thing I love so much about this is that if Dak Prescott throws a couple interceptions, Kellen Moore goes from "risky, outside the box hire for Illinois" to a joke by November.

It is true, by the way, that Sean McVay's success in a copycat league has made every baby-faced white guy with a handful of passing game ideas suddenly an NFL head coaching candidate. I think the way the college game ought to look at that trend is pretty well summed up by the fact that Kliff Kingsbury, the man who managed to go 5-7 with Patrick Mahomes throwing for 5,000 yards and 41 TD's, got fired by Texas Tech after amassing a 19-35 record in the Big XII, and was immediately hired as a head coach in the NFL.

There's being open minded, and then there's just being a sports radio meatball. We've drifted into the latter.
 
#823      
Halloweenie
I am ready...was hopeful today...but we are bad at everything but kicking. They knock out guys down when we try to tackle them or we whiff completely. Offensively we have no answer...we should run more than we do..but Reggie gets banged up easily. Robinson or Williams running the option the rest of the way. No more of the Michigan man. Let the search begin
 
#825      
Deleted member 654622
what needs to happen to get Lovie out of here RIGHT GD NOW? A change needs to come. So make it. Move on. This is pathetic
 
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