2026 FIFA World Cup Thread

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#276      
the juiceman cometh
Ander1345 said:
It was only a serious foul after VAR. How can this possibly be the point of VAR?
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Wouldn't that be an argument against any call that gets changed by VAR? "It was only a goal after VAR," "it was only offside after VAR," "it was only a penalty after VAR," etc. Or any play that gets reversed on video review in any sport?

It seems like a lot of fans get upset with this stuff when it hurts their team, but would be completely fine, or even in favor of it, if it was the other way around. Like, the thing about this play is that everyone is lucky the Bosnia player was fine, but plays like this have absolutely resulted in very serious injuries in the past. If things were reversed and the Bosnia player did this, and Balogun ended up with his Achilles ruptured people on here would be howling not only for a red card but also for the longest suspension in FIFA history.
 
#277      
Ander1345
the juiceman cometh said:
Wouldn't that be an argument against any call that gets changed by VAR? "It was only a goal after VAR," "it was only offside after VAR," "it was only a penalty after VAR," etc. Or any play that gets reversed on video review in any sport?

It seems like a lot of fans get upset with this stuff when it hurts their team, but would be completely fine, or even in favor of it, if it was the other way around. Like, the thing about this play is that everyone is lucky the Bosnia player was fine, but plays like this have absolutely resulted in very serious injuries in the past. If things were reversed and the Bosnia player did this, and Balogun ended up with his Achilles ruptured people on here would be howling not only for a red card but also for the longest suspension in FIFA history.
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You can make any challenge look bad with VAR. They bodied Adam's away from the ball with zero consequence, VAR didn't review it.

Also how is this is a comparison? The Bosnian player played the remaining 40+ minutes without so much as a limp. No one's Achilles was ruptured.
 
#279      
KBLEE
the juiceman cometh said:
This is one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen. What the Bosnia player did was 100% ok, shoulder to shoulder contact. They have a word for his play there in soccer, and that word is "defending." He has as much a right to go for that ball as Balogun has and he gets there first. If that were considered a "violent challenge" it would be literally impossible to defend in soccer.
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Since everyone here seems to love single frames. This was not "shoulder to shoulder" contact. It was a hip-check and barge through Balogun's back which caused him to lose his balance.

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#280      
JSpence
the juiceman cometh said:
This is one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen. What the Bosnia player did was 100% ok, shoulder to shoulder contact. They have a word for his play there in soccer, and that word is "defending." He has as much a right to go for that ball as Balogun has and he gets there first. If that were considered a "violent challenge" it would be literally impossible to defend in soccer.


Biomechanical?

Try this stand still and have someone push your right shoulder from the side to unbalance you. In order to regain your balance, do you extend your right foot outwards and press down? Of course not. Your right foot either stays up as a counterweight or you shift your entire weight away from the push, kind of shuffling to your left. He wasn't trying to regain balance, he was making a very late and reckless challenge on a ball that was already gone, which is why anyone who knows soccer, including the American commentators, acknowledged that a yellow was warranted even if they disagreed with the red.
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Ah, yeah, you aren't watching the whole replay at speed while saying this. That helps me understand where you're coming from. People watching that same tired slo-mo clip can make their brains see almost anything. Like Balogan having time to play for the ball or there being shoulder-to-shoulder contact.
 
#282      
the juiceman cometh
Ander1345 said:
You can make any challenge look bad with VAR. They bodied Adam's away from the ball with zero consequence, VAR didn't review it.

Also how is this is a comparison? The Bosnian player played the remaining 40+ minutes without so much as a limp. No one's Achilles was ruptured.
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So what we should require an MRI before cards are issued? If someone punches you in the face is that only bad if you break your nose?

It's dangerous because it can cause an injury, not dangerous only when it causes an injury.
 
#283      
Homecoming 2019
Shame, should be reviewed and the suspension rescended.

Its not a red because there's no recklessness or ill-intent. He stepped on the ankle by pure happenstance due to the two players colliding.
 
#284      
the juiceman cometh
JSpence said:
What should Balogan have done differently? What did he HAVE TIME to do differently? When did his serious recklessness begin?
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Easy, if he doesn't stab his leg out at a ball he has no chance of he completely removes any chance of coming down on the opponent's ankle and not only avoids the card but also avoids the foul call entirely.

Also, "serious recklessness" isn't a thing. It's either reckless or not.
 
#285      
JSpence
the juiceman cometh said:
If you think this still shows a foul you are new to soccer. Don't know what else to say.
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You implied that it wasn't a foul because it was shoulder-to-shoulder, but now you attack his experience. Kinda telling that you didn't try to mount a technical defense for a hip check.

the juiceman cometh said:
Easy, if he doesn't stab his leg out at a ball he has no chance of he completely removes any chance of coming down on the opponent's ankle and not only avoids the card but also avoids the foul call entirely.

Also, "serious recklessness" isn't a thing. It's either reckless or not.
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So, wait, your argument is now that he had enough time and control of his body to make a soccer play between being slammed in the hip and his foot touching Muharemovic. In other words, he had enough time and knowledge of the defender's position to know where he could put his feet without stepping on him while also halting or shifting his momentum enough to guarantee he didn't contact him in a way that committed some other foul. I know that athletes have good reflexes, but you must think the world of our striker's abilities.

Flat out, I don't see any serious/sincere/genuine/thesaurus recklessness by Balogun before he gets hit in the hip, and you haven't brought any up either. I also don't think he should have assumed he would be checked and thus somehow moved to defer in anticipation of that. In the seconds before the challenge, only one player had a good idea of how much Balogun was about to have his momentum jacked, and it wasn't him.

My opinion in summary: Balogun was at fault neither before the hip check nor in the span of human reaction time after. By my watch, that is the span of the whole "stab". Maybe we'll just never know how fast a man can turn reckless.
 
#291      
the juiceman cometh
JSpence said:
You implied that it wasn't a foul because it was shoulder-to-shoulder, but now you attack his experience. Kinda telling that you didn't try to mount a technical defense for a hip check.
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It was shoulder to shoulder. The guy you're defending intentionally did not post the initial contact. This is the initial contact:
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Next in the sequence:

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If anything the Bosnian player has established position and Balogun is forcing his hip into his space.
 
#292      
Get yourself a new map
the juiceman cometh said:
It was shoulder to shoulder. The guy you're defending intentionally did not post the initial contact. This is the initial contact:
View attachment 50772

Next in the sequence:

View attachment 50773

View attachment 50774



If anything the Bosnian player has established position and Balogun is forcing his hip into his space.
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Your frames show that balogun was ball-side of the defender and had a right to move his right foot to meet the ball - the same type of play he makes 100 other times during a game when trying to receive a pass. In the second frame, his right foot, the one he was going to trap the ball with, was already in the air. Balo was contacted with little force to the shoulder, then a lot of force above his right hip as defender swung his left leg over Balos right thigh. All wall his floating foot was moving toward the ball, which is a normal/natural soccer play. Balo’s foot clips the bottom of defender’s boot, rendering him further incapable of coming down with any means of intentionality. Balo feels that he has landed on defender rather than turf and immediately recoils to the extent that is possible, which is extremely apparent in real time.
 
#293      
the juiceman cometh
Get yourself a new map said:
Your frames show that balogun was ball-side of the defender and had a right to move his right foot to meet the ball -
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I think you're getting their feet mixed up. Balo's right foot is behind the defender, which is how he makes contact with the back of the defender's plant foot/ankle. If your contention is that he has a right to move his foot through the defender to meet the ball, yiu are just 100% wrong about that.

Let me ask you a question. Set the red card aside for a second.

Do you believe there was a foul on that play? Who committed the foul?

I just want to understand whether we fundamentally disagree on what happened here, or just on whether the punishment was justifiable.
 
#294      
JSpence
the juiceman cometh said:
It was shoulder to shoulder. The guy you're defending intentionally did not post the initial contact. This is the initial contact

If anything the Bosnian player has established position and Balogun is forcing his hip into his space.
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Pardon me, I can and did call you out for incorrectly calling this shoulder-to-shoulder independent of what he posted. I'm not so insane as to use one angle of stills to find out what happened.

This wasn't shoulder-to-shoulder. Even the crappy slow-mo shows that. Neither the initial contact was simply shoulder-to-shoulder (some arm and back touching.. is that the same?) while the impact comes through the hips. As I've said several times, watch real replays. I guess it's debatable since we're here, but two guys mutually bumping shoulders factually did not happen here.

Get that junk about established position out of here. The BiH player doesn't have the ball. Neither player has the ball. They haven't even touched it. Not that that's 100% protection but wtf? I can match contact with you at my shoulder, but I don't get to shove my hip into you from the side just because I outran you. This is wild.
 
#295      
Get yourself a new map
the juiceman cometh said:
I think you're getting their feet mixed up. Balo's right foot is behind the defender, which is how he makes contact with the back of the defender's plant foot/ankle. If your contention is that he has a right to move his foot through the defender to meet the ball, yiu are just 100% wrong about that.

Let me ask you a question. Set the red card aside for a second.

Do you believe there was a foul on that play? Who committed the foul?

I just want to understand whether we fundamentally disagree on what happened here, or just on whether the punishment was justifiable.
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First contact is with shoulder, but the contact that displaces Balo is #4’s left elbow to Balo’s right oblique. It’s far more clear on the view from behind. If we are going SUPER letter of the law, it’s a foul on #4. I would never call it unless it was a situation in which I HAD to call something.
Short answer is no, I do not think there was a foul on this play. That’s given that I have this view at my disposal:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2072898813535109378
 
#298      
OrangeBlue98
“Reckless” is in the Laws of the Game as a caution. Which is what that play should have been sanctioned as.

Clear star treatment issues, as Messi’s similar action (which also had intent) was only a simple foul.
 
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