Art Briles out at Baylor

Hoppy2105 · May 27, 2016

The problem with the two sides of these arguments is that each has their own specific area of expertise. S&C is correctly saying that the NCAA can't punish a crime that isn't in their rulebook (if we take the NCAA's jurisdiction at face value).

However, the justice system isn't going to get involved in how a school should police themselves when it comes to scholarships or limiting post season play because...well that's not their realm either.

So what happens is there is that ever present middle ground that nobody is covering. Paterno didn't rape anyone, but he enabled it by not taking more action sooner. The justice system can't throw him in jail when he "technically" did his duty by reporting what little he did report.

So, in my opinion, some governing body has to take control. To me, that needs to be the NCAA. Since these crimes have to do with players/coaches in the athletic departments, it is related to the NCAA's jurisdiction. Now, are they doing a good job? No, not at all. But if they could set up a certain set of rules to give them jurisdiction on these heinous acts that allow them to punish schools, and stick to it, I'd be okay with it.

As long as it is all laid out for the public to see, it's fair, and it's strictly followed, then I would be on board. (And just to frame my stance, I'm one of the people that was happy to see PSU get the punishment they got from the NCAA)

gibb52 · May 27, 2016

Hoppy2105 said:
The problem with the two sides of these arguments is that each has their own specific area of expertise. S&C is correctly saying that the NCAA can't punish a crime that isn't in their rulebook (if we take the NCAA's jurisdiction at face value).

However, the justice system isn't going to get involved in how a school should police themselves when it comes to scholarships or limiting post season play because...well that's not their realm either.

So what happens is there is that ever present middle ground that nobody is covering. Paterno didn't rape anyone, but he enabled it by not taking more action sooner. The justice system can't throw him in jail when he "technically" did his duty by reporting what little he did report.

So, in my opinion, some governing body has to take control. To me, that needs to be the NCAA. Since these crimes have to do with players/coaches in the athletic departments, it is related to the NCAA's jurisdiction. Now, are they doing a good job? No, not at all. But if they could set up a certain set of rules to give them jurisdiction on these heinous acts that allow them to punish schools, and stick to it, I'd be okay with it.

As long as it is all laid out for the public to see, it's fair, and it's strictly followed, then I would be on board. (And just to frame my stance, I'm one of the people that was happy to see PSU get the punishment they got from the NCAA)

I guess my position in regards to NCAA involvement is this: Did the situation create or could it have possibly created a competitive advantage?

In the PSU situation it did not. So IMO the NCAA had no business going there.

UNC with sham classes allowed potential ineligible players to compete.

Baylor sweeping things under the rug allowed potential ineligible players to compete.

Who doesn't like strippers? So Lville created a competitive advantage. And so on.......

blmillini · May 27, 2016

gibb52 said:
I guess my position in regards to NCAA involvement is this: Did the situation create or could it have possibly created a competitive advantage?

In the PSU situation it did not. So IMO the NCAA had no business going there.

UNC with sham classes allowed potential ineligible players to compete.

Baylor sweeping things under the rug allowed potential ineligible players to compete.

Who doesn't like strippers? So Lville created a competitive advantage. And so on.......

As we have witnessed first hand, there is no bigger competitive advantage than having a capable coach.

ILL in IA · May 27, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
I think that's a federal issue, or it's related to institutions that accept federal funding. I believe the NCAA bylaws require adherence to gender equity, you can read them to find out.

I brought it up because it specifically states how institutions must handle sexual assault. Making the ncaa jurisdiction go past recruiting and such.

Second and Chalmers · May 27, 2016

gibb52 said:
Baylor sweeping things under the rug allowed potential ineligible players to compete.

No amount of raping would make a player ineligible.

ILL_INI · May 28, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
No amount of raping would make a player ineligible.

Does the NCAA treat time spent in prison for a felony in a similar manner as it treats time on a Mormon mission in terms of eligibility?

gibb52 · May 28, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
No amount of raping would make a player ineligible.

If you're off the team you aren't eligible. That's where I was going.

South Farms · May 29, 2016

getting the NCAA MORE involved in college athletics is only going to lead to a bigger gap between the haves and the have nots.

It is not in our best interests nor in the interests of any program outside the top 25 for the NCAA to have any more control.

Its NEVER helped us in the past.

Greensboro · Jun 1, 2016

Jim Grobe new coach, AD resigns
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/15834890/baylor-bears-hire-jim-grobe-interim-coach

Greensboro · Jun 13, 2016

Not sure if this is real or just finding one person dumb enough to want Briles back and trying to make a story.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...f-baylor-donors-want-art-briles-back-in-2017/

Deleted member 533939 · Jun 13, 2016

Real story. There are truly creepy people in this world.

Give it to Greene · Jun 13, 2016

Chief86 said:
Real story. There are truly creepy people in this world.

If Ped St fans can still pine away about Jo Pa, why can't Baylor want Briles back... This is the kind of culture that NCAA football has become...

ItsFootballTime · Jun 14, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
The NCAA should stick to enforcing their rules, i.e. eligibility, recruiting rules, etc. Leave the enforcement of criminal violations to the appropriate authorities and the legal system.

If you break the law your boss can fire you and the Grand Elk can kick you out of the Elks Club and the policeman can arrest you.

Why should the ncaa have to live with scumbags doin scumbaggy things when nobody else has to?

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jun 14, 2016

ItsFootballTime said:
If you break the law your boss can fire you and the Grand Elk can kick you out of the Elks Club and the policeman can arrest you.

Why should the ncaa have to live with scumbags doin scumbaggy things when nobody else has to?

Sure, those universities can fire any employees that commit a crime, most likely there is a clause in their contract or some agreement they signed that calls for that. And the same for a scholarship player, undoubtedly it's a violation of their agreement as well.

But again, that's not the NCAA.

FeelYourPaign · Jun 14, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
Sure, those universities can fire any employees that commit a crime, most likely there is a clause in their contract or some agreement they signed that calls for that. And the same for a scholarship player, undoubtedly it's a violation of their agreement as well.

But again, that's not the NCAA.

That's an interesting debate.
For example, in my profession a practitioner who behaves unethically is either sanctioned or removed for the good of the profession and the reputations of the non offenders. So, one could argue that the NCAA, being the only body capable of that level of protection of the other coaches or players or universities, should follow the same logic. Or one could conclude as you have. I'm not sure which is correct, frankly, but I do think the debate has some merit.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jun 14, 2016

FeelYourPaign said:
That's an interesting debate.
For example, in my profession a practitioner who behaves unethically is either sanctioned or ex-communicated for the good of the profession and the reputations of the non offenders. So, one could argue that the NCAA, being the only body capable of that level of protection of the other coaches or players or universities, should follow the same logic. Or one could conclude as you have. I'm not sure which is correct, frankly, but I do think the debate has some merit.

I don't think they are "the only body capable". And if they want to be able to do things like that, they should include it in their bylaws with more explicit language that gives them that authority. But I doubt it happens, because they don't want to be in that business, IMO. They can't even enforce the rules they have in place for compliance today, to add criminal activities on their plate would be a bad move.

FeelYourPaign · Jun 14, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
I don't think they are "the only body capable". And if they want to be able to do things like that, they should include it in their bylaws with more explicit language that gives them that authority. But I doubt it happens, because they don't want to be in that business, IMO. They can't even enforce the rules they have in place for compliance today, to add criminal activities on their plate would be a bad move.

That's a pretty reasonable view, but if we're to hold sport up as a positive force for society and such, shouldn't somebody be taking that role? Right now, there is a vacuum. It is done one way here, another there. I just enjoy the debate, I must admit.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jun 14, 2016

FeelYourPaign said:
That's a pretty reasonable view, but if we're to hold sport up as a positive force for society and such, shouldn't somebody be taking that role? Right now, there is a vacuum. It is done one way here, another there. I just enjoy the debate, I must admit.

I don't see this "vacuum"? I think these decisions are best left to the individual universities, their conferences and other affiliated organizations as well as the law enforcement authorities. I don't see a need to duplicate these things at some additional national level.

ItsFootballTime · Jun 16, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
Sure, those universities can fire any employees that commit a crime, most likely there is a clause in their contract or some agreement they signed that calls for that. And the same for a scholarship player, undoubtedly it's a violation of their agreement as well.

But again, that's not the NCAA.

And the NCAA is a private club like the Elks Club. One of the reasons to join a private club is so that they can throw you out of it when you dance naked on the piano..

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jun 16, 2016

ItsFootballTime said:
And the NCAA is a private club like the Elks Club. One of the reasons to join a private club is so that they can throw you out of it when you dance naked on the piano..

No, not anything like that.

Art Briles out at Baylor

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