Baylor 86, Gonzaga 70

#176      
I guess what I’m getting at is if you take a coach like Izzo who has been at MSU for over 25 years, been to 8 Final Fours, and only won 1 Championship. Or Self, who in 20 years had top teams but only been to 3 Final Fours and won 1 Championship as well.

Their criticism for not winning more championships is buffered by the fact that they’ve been successful in two of the top 3 or 4 conferences year after year.

The problem Gonzaga has is that they can win 30 games a year, but they need some more post season success to validate those wins as being meaningful. Every year 20 of their wins are cupcakes that just about every at large tourney team would be expected to beat.

So they play 10 meaningful games a year with only 2 or 3 of those as road games. For me, it’s just not enough to elevate them to that level that the other consistently great teams are at. It’s not going to happen until they challenge themselves more on the road in the non-con, or start having more success in the tournament.
 
#177      
Looking at 2019-2020...

They played an additional 3 games and. It isn’t quite anyone anywhere.
@ Arizona (14) (who went 10-8 in the PAC10)
@Texas A&M (113) (who went 10-8 in the SEC)
@Washington (58) (who went 5-13 in the PAC10)
I think the point you are trying to make is backfiring with the facts you are presenting.....
 
#178      
I guess what I’m getting at is if you take a coach like Izzo who has been at MSU for over 25 years, been to 8 Final Fours, and only won 1 Championship. Or Self, who in 20 years had top teams but only been to 3 Final Fours and won 1 Championship as well.

Their criticism for not winning more championships is buffered by the fact that they’ve been successful in two of the top 3 or 4 conferences year after year.

The problem Gonzaga has is that they can win 30 games a year, but they need some more post season success to validate those wins as being meaningful. Every year 20 of their wins are cupcakes that just about every at large tourney team would be expected to beat.

So they play 10 meaningful games a year with only 2 or 3 of those as road games. For me, it’s just not enough to elevate them to that level that the other consistently great teams are at. It’s not going to happen until they challenge themselves more on the road in the non-con, or start having more success in the tournament.
When was the last time they didn't at least make the Sweet 16? I believe it is the longest streak in the country iirc
 
#179      
Just to be clear I’m not arguing that they’re a bad team, or Few is a bad coach - just that they’re overrated in the sense that their success could probably be duplicated by a handful of teams in each of the power 5+1 conferences given similar seeds in the tournament.
 
#180      
I don't think they will. They will get a high seed though every year from who they are and winning out in their conference. But no, competition should be too much for a team that hasn't played consisent tough games

They have literally played in 2 of the last 4 National Championship games. They lost one of those games by just 6 points. They also made an Elite 8.

They might win the national championship next year.

Illinois played consistently tough games and they suffered the worst 2nd round loss by a 1-seed in like 30+ years. Michigan played consistently tough games and lost to the same UCLA team that Gonzaga beat.
 
#181      
Gonzaga and Few will begin to get some of respect from me when they’re willing to play an actual non-con road game. It’s ridiculous how highly rated they are when they refuse to play any true road games.

The only true road games they played the ENTIRE season were:
@Portland (327)
@St Mary’s (62)
@BYU (20)
@San Diego (250)
@Pepperdine (110)
@San Francisco (105)

That would be like the Illini playing ONLY
@Chicago State (346)
@Indiana (63)
@Purdue (22)
@North Carolina A&T (284)
@Nebraska (126)
@Northwestern (92)

How many non-conference true road games do you think Illinois plays?

In 2016-2017, we played 0.
In 2017-2018, we played 1.
In 2018-2019, we played 1.
 
#182      
Just to be clear I’m not arguing that they’re a bad team, or Few is a bad coach - just that they’re overrated in the sense that their success could probably be duplicated by a handful of teams in each of the power 5+1 conferences given similar seeds in the tournament.

Starting in 2015, here are Gonzaga's seeds:

2, 11, 1, 4, 1, 1

Starting in 2015, here are Kansas' seeds:

2, 1, 1, 1, 4, 3

Gonzaga has 2 sweet 16s, 2 elite 8s, and 2 national runner-ups

Kansas has lost in the round of 32 3 times, made 2 elite 8s, and 1 Final Four.
 
#183      
As I think the facts presented here prove out, Gonzaga is a legitimately elite program, at this point. That Mark Few has been able to build what he has built there, given everything against it, is nothing short of astounding. I give him all the praise in the world.

Baylor was just on another level in that game and put on one of the most dominating performances we're likely to ever see in a National Championship game. The Zags still had to get there, and did so. Whatever they're doing, it's working and is worthy.

If Few sticks around and stays the course he's been on (no reason to believe he won't), they'll get their championship eventually. If I'm wrong, well, their level of success will still have been enviable to this Illini fan.
 
#184      
They have literally played in 2 of the last 4 National Championship games. They lost one of those games by just 6 points. They also made an Elite 8.

They might win the national championship next year.

Illinois played consistently tough games and they suffered the worst 2nd round loss by a 1-seed in like 30+ years. Michigan played consistently tough games and lost to the same UCLA team that Gonzaga beat.
If and when they win it all I will completely agree. Wouldn't be surprised id Gonzaga wins one but I am doubtful. I will take the field every time
 
#185      
Gonzaga’s players were comparably less muscular and definitely behind in their physical development compared to Baylor. It was night and day.
 
#186      
How many non-conference true road games do you think Illinois plays?

In 2016-2017, we played 0.
In 2017-2018, we played 1.
In 2018-2019, we played 1.
I appreciated the Kansas comparison... but my focus on the non-con road games is because they’re forced to play cupcakes in conference play.

If they want the respect of a P5 program then play a P5 non-con at least.
 
#187      
I appreciated the Kansas comparison... but my focus on the non-con road games is because they’re forced to play cupcakes in conference play.

If they want the respect of a P5 program then play a P5 non-con at least.

They aren't solely responsible for their schedule.
 
#188      
Gonzaga and Few will begin to get some of respect from me when they’re willing to play an actual non-con road game. It’s ridiculous how highly rated they are when they refuse to play any true road games.

The only true road games they played the ENTIRE season were:
@Portland (327)
@St Mary’s (62)
@BYU (20)
@San Diego (250)
@Pepperdine (110)
@San Francisco (105)

That would be like the Illini playing ONLY
@Chicago State (346)
@Indiana (63)
@Purdue (22)
@North Carolina A&T (284)
@Nebraska (126)
@Northwestern (92)
Gonzaga has always played a pretty competitive noncon schedule — whether on the road, home or neutral site. Their road schedule would be tougher if top teams were willing to enter into a home/away series, but not everyone will. And Gonzaga is well past having to just take a road game without reciprocation or enter into an unbalanced agreement to help make a name for itself. Their track record speaks for itself, and they’re not worried about gaining your or other fans/media people’s respect. They may never win a national title, but I think they eventually will. And them not winning one under Fee yet isn’t exactly a big stain on his record. Plenty of schools haven’t won one in that same timeframe.