Chicago Cubs 2026

Grandpa said:

It gets outs and is rewarded. How do you back away? The max speed and torque guy is getting called up, the other guy is in double A

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It would take a different mindset across the league, which isn’t going to happen. And even if you could get the consensus by organizations, individual pictures wouldn’t abide for the reason you state. That’s why I said in my original post that started this discussion, if an organization can find a way whether it be with philosophy or technology where they could measure where a pitcher’s “sweet spot” is that is under max effort but where a pitcher’s effectiveness doesn’t drop off that much, it would have a big advantage.

If you can have four guys in your rotation who can have an ERA between 2.50 to 4.00 and aren’t going down to injuries every year — some that cost a year or more — you’d probably be better off. Again, no idea how you get there. But I don’t think a 6-man rotation would make much of a difference if any.

EyeoftheIllini said:

It would take a different mindset across the league, which isn’t going to happen. And even if you could get the consensus by organizations, individual pictures wouldn’t abide for the reason you state. That’s why I said in my original post that started this discussion, if an organization can find a way whether it be with philosophy or technology where they could measure where a pitcher’s “sweet spot” is that is under max effort but where a pitcher’s effectiveness doesn’t drop off that much, it would have a big advantage.

If you can have four guys in your rotation who can have an ERA between 2.50 to 4.00 and aren’t going down to injuries every year — some that cost a year or more — you’d probably be better off. Again, no idea how you get there. But I don’t think a 6-man rotation would make much of a difference if any.

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If you actually listen to pitchers they are as candid about the willingness to risk their bodies to make money and achieve excellence as NFL players are (and thankfully in their case a bum arm is not as negative of a long-term consequence). They know their elbows won't hold up and they do it anyway eyes wide open.

It sounds ridiculous, but in the era of high tech pitch tracking it's technologically feasible: any pitch over 95mph is a ball. And then manage the advantage the hitters gain by some combo of expanding the strike zone and lowering the mound.

It seems crazy and anti-baseball to me too. But baseball cannot legislate the durability of the human UCL. If this is a problem the sport can't live with, just legislating velocity out of the game can be done.

Emerson Bigguns said:

It's kind of wild. I'm sure it is something that will have to be considered in the next CBA. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more 6 man rotations in the future. If I had a say, I'd be advocating for another roster spot for pitchers. Other than the added expense, I think it would be a win for both the players and management. The schedule is relentless sometimes.
I don't think any Front Office is going to try to get guys not to throw so hard or attempt to generate less torque. It wouldn't work anyway. The vast majority of guys who make it to the majors are way too competitive to take anything for granted.

Seemingly, the only way to help the issue is less usage.

It would make a lot of records untouchable, but many of them already are. Might have to re-calibrate what a HOF pitchers stats look like, but there are plenty of stats to show effectiveness in comparison to contemporaries.

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There are pros and cons to a 6 man rotation. It will help save the arms in most cases. It might add another roster spot to 27. The union will love that. The cons are it’s hard enough to get 5 solid guys, now adding a 6th starter could be difficult. I like the idea if they add another roster spot.

EyeoftheIllini said:

I don’t think a six-man rotation or less usage will make a bit of difference. It’s not usage, it’s torque. If it was usage, you’d see rate of injuries go up as season went on and I’m pretty certain that isn’t the case.

I don’t know what the fix is or if there is even one. I actually think most front offices would love to move away from max effort. But as you point out, the individual pitchers themselves likely wouldn’t do it.

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Torque is definitely root of the problem. Generating that torque is traumatic for a lot of structures in your elbow and arm. Often when muscles and ligaments get stressed the best thing to do is rest them, and allow the body time to heal. I'm not arguing that it would solve the problem. We aren't built to throw objects 100 mph, but I find it hard to believe it wouldn't help a little. Another day of physical therapy and rest certainly wouldn't make it worse. I would also propose the idea of looking at the Little League model of a hard cap on the number of pitches a player can make before mandated rest.

Bullpen guys are kind of treated like cannon fodder. You have to ramp up quickly and often get immediately put into high stress situations, where they are never going to do anything but throw as hard as they can. Then they have to come back the next day and possibly do it again. When you are in the middle of a stretch of 12-15 days without an off day, it's impossible to manage.

Sometimes teams are in a long stretch of games and find themselves in a 13-14 inning game, and they have no choice but to either let a guy throw way more than his preparation has conditioned him for, put in a guy who has already pitched in 2-3 consecutive contests, or put the game in the hands of a position player.
They could potentially create a 1 day IL/reserve spot to allow a guy to be deactivated and rotated out for another Bullpen guy when the team deems him unavailable for a particular game due to pitch count/usage.

Nothing is going to fix the issue of torque, but they could do more to give teams the flexibility needed to protect pitchers from themselves and their managers.

Emerson Bigguns said:

Another day of physical therapy and rest certainly wouldn't make it worse.

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It would if it's a mechanism to prepare the pitcher to throw even harder, which is exactly what every step in the decades-long reduction in individual pitcher workload has done.

ChiefGritty said:

It would if it's a mechanism to prepare the pitcher to throw even harder, which is exactly what every step in the decades-long reduction in individual pitcher workload has done.

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I think the first step is for MLB and individual organizations is to admit they have a problem.

I also don't think workload reduction is the primary driver of increased velocity, but rather better technology and more effective workouts. (biomechanics analysis, weighted ball workouts, and data-driven coaching)

Emerson Bigguns said:

I also don't think workload reduction is the primary driver of increased velocity, but rather better technology and more effective workouts. (biomechanics analysis, weighted ball workouts, and data-driven coaching)

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It's not the driver so much as it's the space in which that technology gains the capacity to operate.

The maximum stuff a human arm can produce for 80-90 pitches every 5 days with a little extra thrown in around off days and the all-star break is greater than if you're throwing a CG every four days, the biomechanics are optimized to the actual activity.

ChiefGritty said:

It's not the driver so much as it's the space in which that technology gains the capacity to operate.

The maximum stuff a human arm can produce for 80-90 pitches every 5 days with a little extra thrown in around off days and the all-star break is greater than if you're throwing a CG every four days, the biomechanics are optimized to the actual activity.

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In theory... In practice they seem to be keeping a lot of high priced orthopedic surgeons in business. lol

The current science seems to be pushing the limit of what can be achieved, rather than what can be achieved sustainably. Hopefully their data sets are beginning to provide a better understanding of that risk/reward.

Some pretty interesting data on this site on the subject of Tommy John surgery:
https://wifitalents.com/tommy-john-surgery-statistics/