Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#601      
warhog6g
Jules Winnfield said:
If Josh Whitman was the athletic director instead of inept Ron Guenther Bill Self would have never gotten away . If Bill Self would have stayed at Illinois and not gone to Kansas I guarantee you Illinois would have at least one National Championship by now . Bruce Weber, Groce and Underwood ain’t it . We have NIL and state of the art basketball facilities now all we need is the right coach. Bill Self 3 years at Illinois record is still better than Underwood’s 8 seasons
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Nah I think Self still leaves. Kansas is a blue blood and they could've/would've matched or beaten anything we could have offered. Also don't forget, 2003 was a different landscape. To say Self hated our compliance department would be an understatement. I'm not sure even Whitman could have overcome that obstacle.
 
#602      
illini0440
warhog6g said:
Nah I think Self still leaves. Kansas is a blue blood and they could've/would've matched or beaten anything we could have offered. Also don't forget, 2003 was a different landscape. To say Self hated our compliance department would be an understatement. I'm not sure even Whitman could have overcome that obstacle.
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Exactly. Would Whitman have fought harder yes. But had Self stayed we would’ve been hit with Sanctions hard by year 5 lol
 
#604      
illini0440
Jules Winnfield said:
If Josh Whitman was the athletic director instead of inept Ron Guenther Bill Self would have never gotten away . If Bill Self would have stayed at Illinois and not gone to Kansas I guarantee you Illinois would have at least one National Championship by now . Bruce Weber, Groce and Underwood ain’t it . We have NIL and state of the art basketball facilities now all we need is the right coach. Bill Self 3 years at Illinois record is still better than Underwood’s 8 seasons
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Just curious who is it in your opinion?
 
#606      
skyIdub
Im not ashamed to say my SLOB can be pretty elite.

seinfield-george-constanza.gif
 
#607      
illini0440
DevILLDawg said:
What connections does Tyler have in the recruiting world that his Dad doesn't?

What coaching experience does he have outside of Illinois? Has he coached for a Press Virginia style or a high flying offense like Alabama?

Does he have recruiting contacts that he built over years on the East Coast or in Florida?

What does he bring to the table that differs from what is inside the program already?

The answer is nothing.

Can he be a phenomenal student of the game and use every waking hour studying the game? Sure. That's not what I asked
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Ok bud
 
#609      
Illini IndyCar Fan
mysterio2525 said:
Wasn't he supposed to get hit a few years back at Kansas? That sure seemed to go away pretty quickly and without any penalty. At least I didn't notice any. Irrelevant now in NIL world
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KU lost a Final 4 banner, a bunch of wins (that knocked them down to #2 all-time behind UK), lost scholarships through next season, and a $5000 fine. And I think I remember Self voluntarily sitting out for a couple pre-conference games. There was a post earlier in this or some other complain about Brad thread with the list of schools with consecutive tourney appearances, and KU isn’t listed because a year or two were voided - but I think their streak is decades long.

Also - it may seem like a light sentence, but the loss of wins and the all-time lead to UK is a big deal down at the Phog, tbh.
 
#610      
PepeSilvia
ChiefGritty said:
Groce had a lot of big misses in the recruiting arena that hurt him and most critically wasted a ton of his and his staff's time and effort, but he did bring some pretty strong players through, recruiting is not his weakness by any means.

Just on a basic tactical, schematic level he gotten beaten like a drum by the Beilein's and Painter's and Izzo's of the world over and over and over again. It couldn't have been any clearer that he wasn't in their league with the dry-erase board in his hand, and with BU it's the opposite as much as some failures lead people to want to believe otherwise.
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Groce's best team by far was the one he inherited from Weber with Paul, Richardson, and Egwu(nearly got to a sweet 16 with that team).

I dont think he was necessarily a great tactical coach either but he didn't really bring in that many strong players.

His only good class was bringing in Hill and Nunn. Plus Rice transferred in but I think Rice is the most overrated Illini in my lifetime. Then he did get Frazier to commit but that's it.

3 good high school recruits in 5 years and the lack of talent on the roster was pretty apparent when Brad took over. Also, he had numerous issues with players getting in trouble.
 
#611      
sacraig
Jules Winnfield said:
If Josh Whitman was the athletic director instead of inept Ron Guenther Bill Self would have never gotten away . If Bill Self would have stayed at Illinois and not gone to Kansas I guarantee you Illinois would have at least one National Championship by now . Bruce Weber, Groce and Underwood ain’t it . We have NIL and state of the art basketball facilities now all we need is the right coach. Bill Self 3 years at Illinois record is still better than Underwood’s 8 seasons
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That may be a stretch. Guenther sucked, but Kansas is Kansas.
 
#612      
Fighter of the Nightman
sacraig said:
That may be a stretch. Guenther sucked, but Kansas is Kansas.
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It at the very least would have been a decision for Bill to the point where we would have had a chance. Programs don’t just automatically lose coaches to “better programs,” after all. Would Michigan lose a coach to Kansas? Maybe, but it wouldn’t be assumed to be obvious before any negotiations. It should be the same here, and RG did us no favors.
 
#613      
PepeSilvia
DevILLDawg said:
If just studying under Gentry takes you from PFO-Director of Recruiting-Offensive Coordinator in 4 years THAN HOW DID WE LET THE ANDY REID OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL GO?

I love your input and commentary Indy but I'd still straw man and say Brad spent plenty of time learning and diving into X and O's with Gentry after years of working together. Would he not?

And I'd still take a guy who spent time under MULTIPLE staffs across the country then someone who fast tracked with their father just so happening to be the coach.
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I always got the the impression that Brad was more of a defensive guy and recruiter.

Gentry was there for the SFA and Ok state teams that had very good offenses but those SFA teams were tough, physical, and pressured everything.

Big10 officials weren't allowing the defense to play that physical so Brad had to adjust defensively but it seemed like his bread and butter was a physical pressure defense(obviously a long way from recent ones).
 
#615      
mysterio2525
Illini IndyCar Fan said:
KU lost a Final 4 banner, a bunch of wins (that knocked them down to #2 all-time behind UK), lost scholarships through next season, and a $5000 fine. And I think I remember Self voluntarily sitting out for a couple pre-conference games. There was a post earlier in this or some other complain about Brad thread with the list of schools with consecutive tourney appearances, and KU isn’t listed because a year or two were voided - but I think their streak is decades long.

Also - it may seem like a light sentence, but the loss of wins and the all-time lead to UK is a big deal down at the Phog, tbh.
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Thanks for the info. I actually did forget they did get some penalty. The final four banner and consecutive tourney streak are something... But you can't take away memories
 
#618      
illini0440
PepeSilvia said:
I always got the the impression that Brad was more of a defensive guy and recruiter.

Gentry was there for the SFA and Ok state teams that had very good offenses but those SFA teams were tough, physical, and pressured everything.

Big10 officials weren't allowing the defense to play that physical so Brad had to adjust defensively but it seemed like his bread and butter was a physical pressure defense(obviously a long way from recent ones).
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Brads an offensive guy
 
#619      
OrangeBlue98
Fighter of the Nightman said:
It at the very least would have been a decision for Bill to the point where we would have had a chance. Programs don’t just automatically lose coaches to “better programs,” after all. Would Michigan lose a coach to Kansas? Maybe, but it wouldn’t be assumed to be obvious before any negotiations. It should be the same here, and RG did us no favors.
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The other big issue with Guenther was his feels were so hurt by Self leaving that his top criteria for the next coach was "he won't leave for a different job". I think Thad Matta would have coached at Illinois until his health issues, but Guenther didn't even seriously consider him because he was afraid Matta would have left for the next job.
 
#620      
OrangeBlue98
Indy Illini Fan said:
Talk about getting the most bang for your buck in the portal as well ... He really found some diamonds in the rough and developed them ...

His SLOB, OOB, and OOTO stuff is ELITE ... His assistants are also very active drawing things up in the huddle ...
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If Underwood did decide to move on for any of the reasons we've listed in this thread, Byington should be someone Whitman is gauging interest for. I've watched Vanderbilt three times this season, and I've been impressed. He knows his stuff. Would just wonder about talent acquisition, but our NIL should help a lot with that.
 
#621      
Joel Goodson
Jules Winnfield said:
My friend If I was a Kansas fan I would say of course they shouldn’t fire Bill Self, but this is a straw man argument. Brad Underwood on his best coaching day could never be Bill Self . Bill Self record in 3 seasons at Illinois is better than Brad Underwood’s 8 seasons at Illinois . Bill Self record at Kansas he has 8 elite 8 , 2 National Championships ,10 sweet 16s and 4 final fours . Bill Self is entitled to a bad season. Brad Underwood is NOT
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Self inherited a wealth of talent, whereas Underwood didn't
 
#623      
Joel Goodson
Jules Winnfield said:
If Josh Whitman was the athletic director instead of inept Ron Guenther Bill Self would have never gotten away . If Bill Self would have stayed at Illinois and not gone to Kansas I guarantee you Illinois would have at least one National Championship by now . Bruce Weber, Groce and Underwood ain’t it . We have NIL and state of the art basketball facilities now all we need is the right coach. Bill Self 3 years at Illinois record is still better than Underwood’s 8 seasons
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sure. Kansas is a top 5 job, regardless of our AD. if the coach wants the job, he's taking it

I do agree that Guenther largely sucked though
 
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