Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
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The Gibson City Bomber!
Listen my friend once again you can believe what you want. You’re entitled to “YOUR OPINION” Just like I’m entitled to mine. My Opinion is BRAD UNDERWOOD is not getting the job done. Top 8 seed in the NCAA Tournament is not going to cut it. Just getting to the NCAA tournament and losing in the first or second round is not going to cut it. NIL changed everything. You don’t get a lifetime contract at the University of Illinois. We pay Brad Underwood generational wealth to win Championships. Underwood is the 8th highest paid college basketball coach in the entire country. I estimate Brad has made over 30 million dollars in his 8 seasons at Illinois and has only been to the second weekend of the NCAA tournament 1 time. Bill Self 3 seasons at Illinois no NIL 1 Elite 8 and 1 Sweet Sixteen and 2 Big Ten Championships . Bill Self also took Tulsa to an Elite 8 . Bill Self is a proven championship coach. I’ve seen all I need to see out of Underachieving Underwood . He is what he is . A mediocre coach. He’s not a bad coach. Bret Bielema and Shauna Green on the other hand are super star coaches and the University of Illinois is lucky to have them. What Bret is doing in Football and Shauna is doing in women’s basketball is absolutely amazing. Talk about resurrecting two dead programs. After 8 seasons at Illinois its clear to me Brad is never going to a Final Four and he’s never and I do mean never is going to win a National Championship at Illinois. Mark my words Brad will either get fired in the next couple of seasons or see the writing on the wall and leave the University of Illinois for another Head coaching basketball job
Good Morning, Illini Nation: Geoff Alexander in line for new contract
Sep. 14—The next University of Illinois Board of Trustees meeting — scheduled for this coming Thursday — will have several items up for approval related to the Illini men's basketball program on the agenda. Most notable? A revised contract (with a raise) for assistant coach Geoff Alexander...
sports.yahoo.com
Your opinion just happens to be insanely dumb though.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Brad might not ultimately get over the hump (I have severe doubts as well), but some of this is way out there, especially the bolded. A mediocre coach does not have multiple banners hung in rafters. Brad is a very good coach being paid excellent coach money. Good news is that Brad can still change the perceptions of how good he is, but mediocre is not one of them.
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Your entire thing is "National Championships are the only thing that matters" and Underwood is mediocre because in your opinion he can't win one. And now Bielema and Green are "super star coaches" who have won how many National Championships? Let's be clear, Bielema and Green are amazing and I have nothing but positive things to say about either of them, but I'm just wondering how they are "super star coaches" by the metric you laid out, which is National Championships? None of the three have achieved that, maybe none of them will (and they can still be wildly successful even without achieving that in my opinion), but Underwood has gotten the closest of the three.
And completely uninformed
McGuppin
- Chicago via Central IL
I guess I'm "insanely dumb" too. I think BU has underperformed given all the tools/$ he has at his disposal. Wish we could have civil disagreements here rather than intolerance for differing opinions.
Why are you so obsessed with Bill Self? He's not coming back.
Bill Self's 3 years at Illinois
2 conference championships
1 BTT championship
1 seed and two 4 seeds
1 Elite Eight
1 Sweet 16
️Underperformed 2/3 years in the tourney
Overperformed 0/3 years in the tourney
Brad Underwood's 3 best years at Illinois
2* conference championships
2 BTT championships
️1 seed, 3 seed, and a 4 seed
️1 Elite Eight
Underperformed 2/3 years in the tourney
Overperformed 1/3 years in the tourney
️The Bill Self highs were no higher than Brad Underwood's highs. Brad has had one subpar year, maybe two depending on how this one ends. But there's no way you look at what Bill Self accomplished from 2001 to 2003 and what Brad accomplished from 2021 to 2024 and conclude that Bill Self demonstrated an ability to win a national championship at Illinois while Brad Underwood has not.
mhuml32
Gesture of Northern Aggression
We need more rants like this on the message boards. It makes things the right amount of spicy.
Totally fair for folks to be frustrated, this season has been a disappointment. But a couple points from this:
(1) NIL has changed the environment but (a) it hasn't changed the calculus for winning and (b) if anything I would say Underwood has embraced NIL a lot better than most B1G coaches.
(2) Literally no one is advocating for Underwood to get a lifetime contract. The program just went to an Elite Eight about 11 months ago and people are acting like he's been given too much rope.
I sound like a bot at this point but I'll keep saying it: This isn't a for-profit business and there are not shareholders. There are still financial and management principles in play, such as fans can get upset and withhold discretionary income, but it's silly that folks are comparing Underwood's salary and asking for the same or better results. This isn't a free market and the system has been off-the-level for some time.
That was the beginning of the best run of Illinois basketball in its history. If that's your measuring stick, there isn't another coach that can guarantee that level of success at Illinois, nor any other program.
Also, it's awful disingenuous for the anti-Underwood folks to point out the lack of NCAA success but not mention the conference success but happily mention the conference success of Self and Kruger and not see the difference.
This is why we need different expectations for coaches and programs...but at the same time Underwood has finished in the top-4 of the conference four of the past five seasons, has won the conference regular season championship, and two conference tournament championships. All of those things are either impossible or extremely difficult for Bielema and Green to accomplish. Brad has effectively established a floor of being a top-5 B1G team and making the NCAA tournament every year, with two of his past four teams being historically special years.
11 months ago, Illinois fell one game short of the Final Four, but now we're certain it's never going to happen with Underwood.
This isn't unique because you can make this statement about 99% of all CBB coaches.
Totally fair for folks to be frustrated, this season has been a disappointment. But a couple points from this:
(1) NIL has changed the environment but (a) it hasn't changed the calculus for winning and (b) if anything I would say Underwood has embraced NIL a lot better than most B1G coaches.
(2) Literally no one is advocating for Underwood to get a lifetime contract. The program just went to an Elite Eight about 11 months ago and people are acting like he's been given too much rope.
I sound like a bot at this point but I'll keep saying it: This isn't a for-profit business and there are not shareholders. There are still financial and management principles in play, such as fans can get upset and withhold discretionary income, but it's silly that folks are comparing Underwood's salary and asking for the same or better results. This isn't a free market and the system has been off-the-level for some time.
That was the beginning of the best run of Illinois basketball in its history. If that's your measuring stick, there isn't another coach that can guarantee that level of success at Illinois, nor any other program.
Also, it's awful disingenuous for the anti-Underwood folks to point out the lack of NCAA success but not mention the conference success but happily mention the conference success of Self and Kruger and not see the difference.
This is why we need different expectations for coaches and programs...but at the same time Underwood has finished in the top-4 of the conference four of the past five seasons, has won the conference regular season championship, and two conference tournament championships. All of those things are either impossible or extremely difficult for Bielema and Green to accomplish. Brad has effectively established a floor of being a top-5 B1G team and making the NCAA tournament every year, with two of his past four teams being historically special years.
11 months ago, Illinois fell one game short of the Final Four, but now we're certain it's never going to happen with Underwood.
This isn't unique because you can make this statement about 99% of all CBB coaches.
band camp
- STL City
Cottage Cheese Anyone?
band camp
- STL City
Groce: Two 20 win seasons here(first 2 years) never finished better than 7th in the league.I guess I'm "insanely dumb" too. I think BU has underperformed given all the tools/$ he has at his disposal. Wish we could have civil disagreements here rather than intolerance for differing opinions.
Brad: Four 20 win season here(so far) 1 regular season conf. Champ(should be 2) 2x Conference Tourney Champ. Will be 6 straight NCAA tourney appearances(Including COVID because we would have gotten in). An elite 8. His argument is essentially that he hasn't won a Championship, Oats, Miller, Beard, Cronin, Barnes, Pearl have never won one either. Hell there are only 6 active coaches with a NCAA title. Is Brad perfect no, but he wins and he wins at a higher rate than most. We put a lot of stock into March and rightfully so because that's the main goal but we tend to forget about all the stuff before March.
Battle89
- Cary-Grove, the better Trojan team
Top 3 for me: Hoosiers, Mississippi Burning, The Birdcage. Now that's range.Royal Tenenbaums for me.
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mhuml32
Gesture of Northern Aggression
I think fans need to re-calibrate - for me I seem to put a lot more weight than others in Illinois' ability to win the conference. Big Ten titles mean something to me.
It should. It's a full seasons body of work. The grind of the conference season isn't easy.
March is such a roll of the dice being a one-and-out, as opposed to a best-of series in which the better team usually prevails in basketball. I agree that a FF should always be the goal for the Illini and a National Championship is a legitimate dream. But for me, having a team that is relevant on the national stage year after year is what is most meaningful. Brad has done that.
I don't think taking someone's entire tenure of 3 years vs the best 3 years is an equal measuring stick here. Especially when those 3 years were not consecutive.Why are you so obsessed with Bill Self? He's not coming back.
Bill Self's 3 years at Illinois
2 conference championships
1 BTT championship
1 seed and two 4 seeds
1 Elite Eight
1 Sweet 16
Underperformed 2/3 years in the tourney
Overperformed 0/3 years in the tourney
Brad Underwood's 3 best years at Illinois
2* conference championships
2 BTT championships
1 seed, 3 seed, and a 4 seed
1 Elite Eight
Underperformed 2/3 years in the tourney
Overperformed 1/3 years in the tourney
The Bill Self highs were no higher than Brad Underwood's highs. Brad has had one subpar year, maybe two depending on how this one ends. But there's no way you look at what Bill Self accomplished from 2001 to 2003 and what Brad accomplished from 2021 to 2024 and conclude that Bill Self demonstrated an ability to win a national championship at Illinois while Brad Underwood has not.
What on Earth are you talking about?
Generational wealth is any type of wealth that passes down to one or more family members when a person dies. Britanica.
By that definition, every coach in college basketball is paid "generational wealth" and your argument is thus completely meaningless.
How would you compare their ceilings?
That's what this is all about right? Somehow some people think that during his three years here, Self made it blatantly, inarguably clear that he could win a Natty.
But Underwood has shown that he absolutely, can't? He's reached the same highs at Illinois as Self did.
Because Brad bowed out early 3/4 years that means he'll NEVER have a deep tournament run?
In the 4 years from 2003 to 2006, Self was:
Upset in the second round as a 4 seed
Made the Elite Eight as a 4 seed
Upset in the first round by a 14 seed
Upset in the first round by a 13 seed
And again I ask, why is it so so obvious to people that this guy was going to win a Natty at Illinois but Brad Underwood can't?
I also put more weight on regular season results more than a tournament. More tickets to the dance with better seats means more success as well. My ultimate goal is to win or at least compete for the B1G conference championship. The B1G tournament doesn't mean as much, and the NCAA tournament is just fun. Early exits can still be frustrating.
Bat 21 wasn't bad either
DevILLDawg
- Meredosia, Illinois
If he brings in John Blackwell, retains Tomi and Morez, maybe a couple others...along with the 2 SUPERSTAR International dudes....I'll fully jump on the wagon
BONUS POINTS for Costanza. Love some Seinfeld
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
I don't use the ignore feature a lot on this site, but I think the button in this case is your (and others') friend here.
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