Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#526      
Thaillini22
Indy Illini Fan said:
Bret & Shauna have passed over Brad … They’re getting 💩 done with less …

Our top 10 paid MBB coach is the freaking third best coach out of our three major programs …

FLAT … OUT … UNACCEPTABLE …
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How would you rank them based solely on results from the casual fan's perspective (fun games to attend, national recognition, championships, tv exposure, etc)?

I'd put BU first, and this isn't meant to be snarky. I love BB, he's the coolest... but I think there's quite a bit of can't see the forest for the trees going on this week.
 
#527      
Indy Illini Fan
Thaillini22 said:
How would you rank them based solely on results from the casual fan's perspective (fun games to attend, national recognition, championships, tv exposure, etc)?

I'd put BU first, and this isn't meant to be snarky. I love BB, he's the coolest... but I think there's quite a bit of can't see the forest for the trees going on this week.
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Bret and Shauna do more with less … Brad is given every possible resource and so far the ROI …

It ain’t good …
 
#529      
TheodoreRex
Let's pull an Underwood and replace him with Beard... Since he's in the business of replacing people, let's replace him with a better coach. Beard can coach circles around Brad, and it's not close
 
#530      
lstewart53x3
Indy Illini Fan said:
Bret & Shauna have passed over Brad … They’re getting 💩 done with less …

Our top 10 paid MBB coach is the freaking third best coach out of our three major programs …

FLAT … OUT … UNACCEPTABLE …
Click to expand...
I understand you’re not happy with Brad at the moment, and I can understand why. I hope some staff changes are made as well.

But—he’s not a top 10 paid coach. From what I can find, he’s 14:

1. Bill Self, Kansas – $8,803,800
2. John Calipari, Arkansas – $8,000,000
3. Dan Hurley, UConn – $7,775,000
4. Tom Izzo, Michigan State – $6,196,879
5. Mick Cronin, UCLA – $6,100,000
6. Bruce Pearl, Auburn – $5,958,852
7. Rick Barnes, Tennessee – $5,800,000
8. Scott Drew, Baylor – $5,410,061
9. Tommy Lloyd, Arizona – $5,250,000
10. Nate Oats, Alabama – $5,018,045
11. Mark Pope, Kentucky – $5,000,000
12. Chris Beard, Ole Miss – $5,000,000
13. Matt Painter, Purdue – $4,850,000
14. Brad Underwood, Illinois – $4,800,000
15. Fred Hoiberg, Nebraska – $4,750,000

In the past 5 years, he has an E8, won the big ten regular season once and the big ten tournament twice, and is in the top 10 in the nation in total wins over that span.

Even in a rebuilding year, where 4 of his top 6 players are freshman, he got a 6 seed and won a game in the NCAAT.

I’m a HUGE fan of Shauna. But her best finish with an all senior team is an 8 seed. Is that really “doing more with less?”
 
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#531      
Heisenbobble
Thaillini22 said:
How would you rank them based solely on results from the casual fan's perspective (fun games to attend, national recognition, championships, tv exposure, etc)?

I'd put BU first, and this isn't meant to be snarky. I love BB, he's the coolest... but I think there's quite a bit of can't see the forest for the trees going on this week.
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You're telling me you think Bret didn't get WAY more out of his team with the talent on the football roster (10-win season and top 16 in the country) than Brad did with the talent on his basketball roster (top 32 with multiple blowout losses)?

That's not even discussing all the defections the past year.
 
#532      
FloridaMan
lstewart53x3 said:
I understand you’re not happy with Brad at the moment, and I can understand why. I hope some staff changes are made as well.

But—he’s not a top 15 paid coach. From what I can find, he’s 14:

1. Bill Self, Kansas – $8,803,800
2. John Calipari, Arkansas – $8,000,000
3. Dan Hurley, UConn – $7,775,000
4. Tom Izzo, Michigan State – $6,196,879
5. Mick Cronin, UCLA – $6,100,000
6. Bruce Pearl, Auburn – $5,958,852
7. Rick Barnes, Tennessee – $5,800,000
8. Scott Drew, Baylor – $5,410,061
9. Tommy Lloyd, Arizona – $5,250,000
10. Nate Oats, Alabama – $5,018,045
11. Mark Pope, Kentucky – $5,000,000
12. Chris Beard, Ole Miss – $5,000,000
13. Matt Painter, Purdue – $4,850,000
14. Brad Underwood, Illinois – $4,800,000
15. Fred Hoiberg, Nebraska – $4,750,000

In the past 5 years, he has an E8, won the big ten regular season once and the big ten tournament twice, and is in the top 10 in the nation in total wins over that span.

Even in a rebuilding year, where 4 of his top 6 players are freshman, he got a 6 seed and won a game in the NCAAT.

I’m a HUGE fan of Shauna. But her best finish with an all senior team is an 8 seed. Is that really “doing more with less?”
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God, Cronin making 6 large is just disgusting, lol
 
#534      
redwingillini11
Thaillini22 said:
I don't want to start an argument, and I respect your opinions and insights implicitly, but what is the expectation? BU should have won a Natty in the last 3 years since NIL got hot?
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Go to the second weekend more than once. Don’t have a complete ____ show for a staff. Don’t make players who have every reason to stay look for any reason to leave.
 
#536      
Thaillini22
redwingillini11 said:
Go to the second weekend more than once. Don’t have a complete ____ show for a staff. Don’t make players who have every reason to stay look for any reason to leave.
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Come on, this year's staff was disappointing, fine. That's one. And your last statement seems a bit exaggerated.

I think we should have done much much more with the 1 seed, agreed. Everyone knows that and everyone knows some really good coaches over the years who have had flame outs, such as losses to a 16, 15, and 13 in the span of, what, 4-5 appearances?
 
#538      
redwingillini11
We like to point to players who leave are program ending up doing worse off after leaving. There are just a couple of exceptions, and a ton of examples where that’s been true. What does it say about how all of these players bolted for worse situations. Poor judgement on their part? Probably. Something about this program that just drives players away? It really seems like it.
 
#539      
TheodoreRex
lstewart53x3 said:
I understand you’re not happy with Brad at the moment, and I can understand why. I hope some staff changes are made as well.

But—he’s not a top 10 paid coach. From what I can find, he’s 14:

1. Bill Self, Kansas – $8,803,800
2. John Calipari, Arkansas – $8,000,000
3. Dan Hurley, UConn – $7,775,000
4. Tom Izzo, Michigan State – $6,196,879
5. Mick Cronin, UCLA – $6,100,000
6. Bruce Pearl, Auburn – $5,958,852
7. Rick Barnes, Tennessee – $5,800,000
8. Scott Drew, Baylor – $5,410,061
9. Tommy Lloyd, Arizona – $5,250,000
10. Nate Oats, Alabama – $5,018,045
11. Mark Pope, Kentucky – $5,000,000
12. Chris Beard, Ole Miss – $5,000,000
13. Matt Painter, Purdue – $4,850,000
14. Brad Underwood, Illinois – $4,800,000
15. Fred Hoiberg, Nebraska – $4,750,000

In the past 5 years, he has an E8, won the big ten regular season once and the big ten tournament twice, and is in the top 10 in the nation in total wins over that span.

Even in a rebuilding year, where 4 of his top 6 players are freshman, he got a 6 seed and won a game in the NCAAT.

I’m a HUGE fan of Shauna. But her best finish with an all senior team is an 8 seed. Is that really “doing more with less?”
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What is the historic reputation of our football and women's basketball program? How much NIL do they get in comparison to our basketball program?

What Shauna and Bret have done with their programs is a miracle. Green just helped our girls win their first NCAA tourney game in 25 years... 25 years.
What Brad is doing with our men's program is below many fans expectations... I expect more than what you listed
 
#543      
lstewart53x3
TheodoreRex said:
What is the historic reputation of our football and women's basketball program? How much NIL do they get in comparison to our basketball program?

What Shauna and Bret have done with their programs is a miracle. Green just helped our girls win their first NCAA tourney game in 25 years... 25 years.
What Brad is doing with our men's program is below many fans expectations... I expect more than what you listed
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Remember when the men’s program missed the NCAAT 6 years a row and now has made it 6 years in a row?

Again, I’m a HUGE fan of Shauna. She’s an absolute miracle worker and I couldn’t be happier with the direction of the women’s program.

But to say she’s “doing more” is just inaccurate. Her best seasons are on par with Brad’s worst.

She’s doing a phenomenal job, but not “more” than Brad.
 
#544      
IlliniShelt
lstewart53x3 said:
Remember when the men’s program missed the NCAAT 6 years a row and now has made it 6 years in a row?

Again, I’m a HUGE fan of Shauna. She’s an absolute miracle worker and I couldn’t be happier with the direction of the women’s program.

But to say she’s “doing more” is just inaccurate. Her best seasons are on par with Brad’s worst.

She’s doing a phenomenal job, but not “more” than Brad.
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BU got us to an E8 for the first time in 20 years...Shauna got us our first tourney win in 25 years. She's had the higher trek to climb. That's also to say nothing of the reasons they've been given.
 
#545      
Thaillini22
Heisenbobble said:
You're telling me you think Bret didn't get WAY more out of his team with the talent on the football roster (10-win season and top 16 in the country) than Brad did with the talent on his basketball roster (top 32 with multiple blowout losses)?

That's not even discussing all the defections the past year.
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I think both are good coaches and both have had a good amount of talent. I don't know how to measure WAY more tbh, but to your point FB did seem to have a better performance when comparing the two programs looking through Robert's "did" vs. "should" paradigm.
 
#546      
TheodoreRex
lstewart53x3 said:
Remember when the men’s program missed the NCAAT 6 years a row and now has made it 6 years in a row?

Again, I’m a HUGE fan of Shauna. She’s an absolute miracle worker and I couldn’t be happier with the direction of the women’s program.

But to say she’s “doing more” is just inaccurate. Her best seasons are on par with Brad’s worst.

She’s doing a phenomenal job, but not “more” than Brad.
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What were the expectations for Shauna in the first 3 years that she's been here?

What are the expectations for Brad?

What are the expectations for Bret?

I'm sorry, but based on expectations for the programs- Shauna has far overachieved, Bret has overachieved, and IMO, Brad has underachieved..
 
#548      
Thaillini22
TheodoreRex said:
What were the expectations for Shauna in the first 3 years that she's been here?

What are the expectations for Brad?

What are the expectations for Bret?

I'm sorry, but based on expectations for the programs- Shauna has far overachieved, Bret has overachieved, and IMO, Brad has underachieved..
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Is it safe to say that every coach's goal is to win banners, hardware, and nattys? If so, Brad has achieved the most and gotten closest.

If we had played and beaten NC State and made a F4 last year, and not played arguably the best team in 25 years, would everyone here still be so grumpy and parsing minutiae details about how good or bad of a place our program is in?

I thought this was a results business. How many coaches have had better results since 2020?
 
#550      
lstewart53x3
TheodoreRex said:
What were the expectations for Shauna in the first 3 years that she's been here?

What are the expectations for Brad?

What are the expectations for Bret?

I'm sorry, but based on expectations for the programs- Shauna has far overachieved, Bret has overachieved, and IMO, Brad has underachieved..
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If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
 
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