Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#551      
TheodoreRex
Thaillini22 said:
Is it safe to say that every coach's goal is to win banners, hardware, and nattys? If so, Brad has achieved the most and gotten closest.

If we had played and beaten NC State and made a F4 last year, and not played arguably the best team in 25 years, would everyone here still be so grumpy and parsing minutiae details about how good or bad of a place our program is in?

I thought this was a results business. How many coaches have had better results since 2020?
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Lol, if you can't objectively understand that Bret and Shauna have overachieved based on what has generally been expected of our football and women's basketball program, I don't know what the heck to say to you. So you think we should weigh Illinois footballs success on whether or not we compete with Bama or OSU or Michigan and that is how we measure their success? Our girls program was a failure because we aren't as good as Texas or South Carolina? If you think that, you're delusional.

Like I said, objectively, Bret and Shauna have done more for their programs in a short time than almost anyone expected.
 
#553      
FloridaMan
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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No. We need to win it all before the whole thing blows up or withers away. We've done what you listed, and most are grateful for it. It's time to get to the top of the mountain and finally validate this as one of the top programs.
 
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#554      
TheodoreRex
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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Did you forget Brad's been her for 8 years and has only made the 2nd weekend of the Tourney once at Illinois?

What did he do with the 1 seed?

What about our school record for the worst loss?

Have you seen his record at. home against top 15 teams? Not good
 
#557      
Idea Gardener
Indy Illini Fan said:
Hamer & Tyler should be given the opportunity to find other jobs and if they cannot do that by the end of April then they should both be fired …

Kwa Jones demoted or fired …

If Brad refuses to do those 3 things … He should be put on notice that come seasons end with another underwhelming year, he better start looking for another job because he will be fired … Period …

This ain’t a top 10 program … Top 10 programs don’t operate like this …

It’s time to get serious or get to steppin …

Season 3 Leave GIF by Martin
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Is that where Josh is at too?
 
#558      
Scoregasm
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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I would gladly trade it all for a national championship.
 
#559      
STLini25
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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Absolutely not. No way.
 
#560      
OrangeKrush1981
lstewart53x3 said:
I understand you’re not happy with Brad at the moment, and I can understand why. I hope some staff changes are made as well.

But—he’s not a top 10 paid coach. From what I can find, he’s 14:

1. Bill Self, Kansas – $8,803,800
2. John Calipari, Arkansas – $8,000,000
3. Dan Hurley, UConn – $7,775,000
4. Tom Izzo, Michigan State – $6,196,879
5. Mick Cronin, UCLA – $6,100,000
6. Bruce Pearl, Auburn – $5,958,852
7. Rick Barnes, Tennessee – $5,800,000
8. Scott Drew, Baylor – $5,410,061
9. Tommy Lloyd, Arizona – $5,250,000
10. Nate Oats, Alabama – $5,018,045
11. Mark Pope, Kentucky – $5,000,000
12. Chris Beard, Ole Miss – $5,000,000
13. Matt Painter, Purdue – $4,850,000
14. Brad Underwood, Illinois – $4,800,000
15. Fred Hoiberg, Nebraska – $4,750,000

In the past 5 years, he has an E8, won the big ten regular season once and the big ten tournament twice, and is in the top 10 in the nation in total wins over that span.
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I am not clear on the argument here: if one is not paid enough (4.8 mil is almost povery wages!), one can't win at the highest level? Is that the point?
 
#561      
Navy_illini
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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So only one 2nd weekend trip in 5 years with 3 seeds which on paper should make it. That is under performing. Also 3 all Americans we had the talent

If we had a S16 plus an elite 8 I would be satisfied but we need a final 4 and beyond
 
#562      
OrangeKrush1981
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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Why is that attractive? That is an honest question.

Coach Underwood talks about championships often. He also mentions NCAA championships. You and he seem on a different page of the hymnal.

(Don't take that personally. I get it, you like me are a HUGE fan of the program. I apologize for being a jerk.)
 
#563      
STLini25
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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No way can Underwood be given top 15 resources and 6 All Americans in an 8 year period and reach 2 Sweet 16s in 13 years and it’s acceptable. Way underperformance.
 
#564      
Thaillini22
Scoregasm said:
I would gladly trade it all for a national championship.
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If my ability to count stuff is correct, I believe that since 2000 just 13 programs have won the natty and only one while they were a member of the B10, right? And that was 25 years ago. This was accomplished by 15 coaches (UCONN had 3 different ones do it).

People act as if it's some sort of formality and that BU just needs to "Do better!" and follow the magic formula that no previous Illinois coach has been able to follow. It's strange.
 
#566      
OrangeKrush1981
Who cares? I mean that sincerely. What is the point? That it is hard to win?

Only one team won the NCAA Tournament national championship last year -- should we come to the realization that winning at that level is so hard that we should be happy to never achieve that?
 
#567      
Gbop
If Hamer’s back next year, we should all picket in front of Ubben.
 
#568      
STLini25
Thaillini22 said:
If my ability to count stuff is correct, I believe that since 2000 just 13 programs have won the natty and only one while they were a member of the B10, right? And that was 25 years ago. This was accomplished by 15 coaches (UCONN had 3 different ones do it).

People act as if it's some sort of formality and that BU just needs to "Do better!" and follow the magic formula that no previous Illinois coach has been able to follow. It's strange.
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How many programs have been to 2 sweet 16s in the last 8 years? How many been to 1? A National Championship isn’t the standard but Sweet 16s every 2 or 3 years is expected given the resources being put into the program.
 
#569      
TheodoreRex
Thaillini22 said:
I think both are good coaches and both have had a good amount of talent. I don't know how to measure WAY more tbh, but to your point FB did seem to have a better performance when comparing the two programs looking through Robert's "did" vs. "should" paradigm.
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Ok, let me make it a little simpler:
How would your rate the following seasons this year based on expectations going into the season
Illinois football:
Illinois W basketball:
Illinois M Basketbal:

I'd rate them
A
A-(but really an A considering all the injuries)
C+

Who did more based on expectations?
 
#570      
lstewart53x3
STLini25 said:
How many programs have been to 2 sweet 16s in the last 8 years? How many been to 1? A National Championship isn’t the standard but Sweet 16s every 2 or 3 years is expected given the resources being put into the program.
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So in your opinion:

Throw out the regular season accolades, they’re meaningless. What really matters is the NCAAT.

Therefore, you’d trade Brad for Juwan Howard, correct? Because he did better in the NCAAT?
 
#571      
FloridaMan
Thaillini22 said:
If my ability to count stuff is correct, I believe that since 2000 just 13 programs have won the natty and only one while they were a member of the B10, right? And that was 25 years ago. This was accomplished by 15 coaches (UCONN had 3 different ones do it).

People act as if it's some sort of formality and that BU just needs to "Do better!" and follow the magic formula that no previous Illinois coach has been able to follow. It's strange.
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Are we, or are we not, a top 15 program all time? What is the one thing the program has not done? It is literally the only thing keeping us from being widely considered one of the best programs in the country. And most of our fanbase are just happy to win 20 games a year and make the tournament most years and win a conference championship once every decade. I think BU and Josh both expect more than that and BU, at least, has said so often.
 
#572      
Username
lstewart53x3 said:
If I could guarantee you in the next 5 years:

- Top 10 in the nation in wins
- Top 2 in the big ten in wins
- 2 regular season big ten championships
- 2 BTT championships
- Make all 5 NCAATs
- 20 or more wins every year
- 3 All Americans
- 4 first round draft picks
- a 1 seed, 3 seed, 4 seed, and 6 seed
- and an Elite Eight

Would you take it?
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I'd say, all that and only 1 elite 8???

Would I take it? The question and answer both need context. Which direction are we trending - ascending or descending? Are the issues that caused us to come up short, being properly addressed? Are we doing more with less or less with more?
 
#573      
STLini25
No, that is not my point. Underwood needs to do the other items mentioned and reach a Sweet 16 every 2 or 3 years. We have been a 1,3,4,6 and 9 seed the past 5 years. I think that is fine but not great considering we made 1 Sweet 16.

Coaches like seeing Underwood on the opposing sidelines in March. He is outmatched against other coaches in March.
 
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#574      
Thaillini22
TheodoreRex said:
Ok, let me make it a little simpler:
How would your rate the following seasons this year based on expectations going into the season
Illinois football:
Illinois W basketball:
Illinois M Basketbal:

I'd rate them
A
A-(but really an A considering all the injuries)
C+

Who did more based on expectations?
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If someone's expectations were 20 wins and a tourney berth with a decent seed and a win or two, they would give a higher grade than C+

Which would have been the sane expectation given the player turnover and youth.

Why are we so fixated on this arbitrary measure?
 
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