As a GA, not an assistant. He LEFT his dad to become an assistant before coming back to his dad. Why is this so hard?
Coaching Carousel (Basketball)
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Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
That is exactly what Brad should have done. Use his connections to get Tyler into coaching under a different staff to develop (records really do not matter).
Regarding Houston, was there nepotism involved, possibly. However, they have been to the second weekend six straight tournaments, including two final fours. Hardly an appropriate comparison to what we are seeing play out here.
I didn't say I thought Kellen didn't get his job due to nepotism (obviously he did); I explained why the other poster said that Kelvin Sampson at least tried to "avoid the appearance of impropriety" (which he did). There is a huge difference in optics between Kellen moving up through the ranks (GA -> assistant for S&C -> assistant) and working at different schools where his dad did not and Tyler walzing straight up into assistant position at his daddy's school. If you can't discern the difference I've got a bridge to sell you too.
The Sprouting Divot
Invisible and Bulletproof
- Miracle Mile
That's pretty rich coming from a person who doesn't understand the significance of the information contained in their own posts.
Exactly…… something, something…… “functioning brain” childish dig
When I think of avoiding impropriety, Kelvin Sampson is always the first coach I think of
Kellen left his dad in 2008 but that was also when his dad was fired from Indiana and left college coaching until 2014. And then wouldn't you know it, Kellen joined the Houston staff in 2014 when his dad was hired.
Every season that Kelvin Sampson has been a college basketball head coach since 2004, Kellen Sampson has either played for him, been his grad assistant or an assistant coach under him.
The only years Kellen did not work under Kelvin was during his dad's five-year show cause where he was an NBA assistant while Kellen stayed in the college ranks until his dad came back. It is safe to assume Kellen would have never left his father's side if Kelvin had never been forced to leave college coaching.
One average year at FIU.
One 4th place finish in the B10 while at Minnesota and didn’t finish above 7th in any other year. 1 tourney win in 8 years at the job.
Finished 10th, 6th, 6th and finally 1st this year at New Mexico. One tournament win this year.
That’s a very mediocre resume.
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
So a boss is just supposed to let one of his two most important employees pile-drive the program without doing anything about it?
Would a Fortune 500 CEO let the VP of his second largest division crater that division without having discussions with that VP about recommendations to fix the problem?
Yes, this happens more often than you'd think. Questioning the VP indirectly questions the CEO's hiring judgement, so to avoid confronting their own failure and bruising their ego, they avoid confronting the VP as long as possible.
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
I was going to reply with pretty much the same thing. Yes… this happens much more often than it doesn’t.
You all having this CEO/VP/whatever discussion is just silly. You are assuming that everything is staying static over a period of time. You may not notice it much, but in life shite actually can change at the drop of a hat, in moments, in days, over time, short and long periods of time! Pretending it doesn't and saying questioning things is an admittance of one's own failure is pure horse pucky!
Sampson’s run at Houston has been phenomenal. 6 straight Sweet 16s, and 2 Final Fours, and this is at a school that for a long time was thought of as a mid major type of job. Sampson needs to be ranked up there with Mark Few as to excellent coaches getting the very most out of the place they are at.
When you get those results, you can do whatever you want with your staff.
When you get those results, you can do whatever you want with your staff.
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
It’s a tricky situation. I trust JW to handle it in a reasonable manner. You could either
1) do your suggestion - directly or indirectly force a change (doesn’t really matter how), and potentially have one of your two most important employees (and maybe even both) be disgruntled at their boss, regardless of whether the change is successful.
2) don’t force anything. Maybe suggest softly. Probably get shot down. And still risk the same outcome as (1). But maybe not. Depends on the type of employee that person is.
3) don’t do anything. Let it play out as it may. Let the record speak for itself. Maybe quietly let the powers at be that’s what you’re doing (ie donors), and if that employee doesn’t make the changes on his own and it’s another disappointing season, you have all the ammo you need to make a bigger change.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I’m firmly in the (3) camp, assuming donors aren’t revolting (or are seriously threatening to) and cutting ties. The ship may not be sailing smoothly, but it’s not sinking (at least to the world outside this board). That gives JW some latitude to slow play this.
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Those CEOs generally don’t stay as CEOs for long.
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Why would Bielema care? He has his program in a fantastic spot and doesn't need Whitman to help steer him in the right direction. He does exactly what a head coach should do when the season doesn't go as planned, and look at what happened this season.
I'll 100% stand behind my previous comment that if Underwood came to me looking for a raise, I'd tell him his raise is effective when he is when it comes to making the needed changes to the program.
I think the best thing right now would be if Underwood makes his own decision and finally follows through on his threats if someone really does come to him. There are plenty of coaches who would at least have this program in the same spot, and I'm very confident that Josh Whitman would find the right coach to take this program to an even higher level. Maybe even one who can properly manage his staff!
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This …
Also - I’m not even going to entertain the Kellen vs. Tyler discussion … Kellen is one of the sports best assistants …
sacraig
- The desert
Do you feel the assistant coaches are the ones with the most impact on winning/lossong seasons or the head coach? I don't know Sampson's specific responsibilities at those jobs, but he wasn't the head coach.
Was he the absolute most highly qualified option for Houston when he was hired there? Probably not, but Houston was an AAC school at the time, so it's not like the big names were knocking down the doors to get in.
He also wasn't hired to run the entire offense. Sampson was at least reasonably qualified to take that position at that school in that conference at that time.
Not sure if be a fan of him being named head coach in waiting if I were a Cougars fan, though.
A good leader doesn’t. A good leader doesn’t care about the shot to his his/her ego. They address the problem for the overall good of the company. Period.
C'mon, if we were to hire an assistant coach from even a P4 program that went 9-21 the prior season, we all know this board would riot (and remember, when he was hired there were only 3 ACs). Let's not pretend this is anything other than what it plainly is. Even if Kellen Sampson is amazing, it's still nepotism, and still presents the same problems inherent in neoptism. The only specific objection to TU seems to be the nepotism one. So either nepotism is disqualifying, or it isn't. Let's not twist ourselves up trying to have it both ways.
I believe you win you say Kellen is one of the best assistants in the college basketball. It makes sense he’s been working under one of the best coaches in college basketball for a decade plus.
But to hold him up as an example of how to do nepotism correctly, doesn’t hold water for me. You look at his resume up to when his dad was hired at Houston and tell me we wouldn’t be saying “here we go again” when he was hired.
I like that Underwood promotes from within. For me the bigger problem is he’s done it 4 of our 5 assistant coaches and it feels like we aren’t getting as much out of our staff as we could and that we would benefit from some fresh blood and outside opinions. Especially if nobody see’s any issues with our defense.
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
It's hard to equate basketball to corporate life, but I think the attitude of promoting from within at a program like Illinois does more harm than it does good all things considered. In a coporate enviroment, you often have a number of positions in the same line. For example, there will be a number of accounting supervisor positions. Sure, you need some fresh perspectives that outside opinions can bring. But internal promotions foster engagement and a feeling that you can work up the ladder. If I'm hiring, I'd prefer an internal promotion and would use that as a tiebreaker if I had two candidates that were equal in other ways. However, I'll always select the most qualified candidate. I don't care about internal politics, friend connections, etc. I want the best skills, accomplishments, and qualifications when I'm hiring. Call me unsentimental, but internal politics really don't sway my thinking a lot.
A Big Ten basketball staff only has five assistant coaching positions, and we all know how transient the profession is. Maybe you have one for an internal promotion role, but the other four really need to be for experienced assistants. A Big Ten staff isn't where you have "on the job" training. It's where you hire people who have proven themselves at other positions and are looking to eventually be head coaches one day. On a given top Big Ten staff, you should have at least three - and probably four - coaches who should be getting calls and interviews for promotions (head coach at a smaller school, lead assistant at a big school) as their next step up the ladder. Now maybe they have done that and are good staying as an assistant (i.e. Antigua), but if 75-80% of your staff isn't fielding some sort of interest from other programs for promotions then you're probably doing it wrong.
On the current Illinois staff, who is likely fielding calls and interest for promotions? I think we can all agree that Hamer isn't. Let's assume that it's only Antigua and Alexander (again, only an assumption on my part). If that's the case, that's 40% of the assistant coaching staff. That's not good enough for a program like Illinois, in my opinion.
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I thought it meant it would be easier for him because the SEC is already crowded and it's tough for a third SEC team to survive conference play and get another 1 seed. In the Big Ten he would have an easier time dominating conference play and get a 1 seed
sacraig
- The desert
Houston was a middling AAC program when he was hired and we have been at or near the top of the B1G when Tyler got that job. Tyler was also hired directly into an offensive coordinator type role from being a GA.
The two kids of coaches are not comparable in terms of the experience they had at the time of hire, nor the caliber of the programs they were joining at the time of hire.
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